Sailnet Tayana List
Please don't put Cetol on your teak deck.
Leave it natural and scrub it down with a Clorox/soap solution about every
three months. Between scrubbing, soak it down with salt water and then wash it
off with fresh water when you are back at the dock. If you do this, people will
admire you deck and it will stay in good shape.
Best Regards, John M. Campbell May
2000
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John,
Yes I am serious about the bleach. A
yacht broker/captain gave me the formula. He used it for years on a
multi-million dollar yacht and it works beautifully. The worst enemy of teak is
mold and the small amount of bleach in the solution kills the mold. Once the
deck dries, It has a very consistent teak color and gradually bleaches out to a
nice silver. I use a 3M-scrub pad which has a handle. I first wet down the deck
with water and scrub a small area using the solution. I then rinse that area
and continue this process until finished. Make sure you rinse the boat well
after scrubbing the deck and avoid getting the solution on your lines. The
solution I use consist of one cup of bleach and 1/2 cup of dish washing liquid
per gallon of water.
I see no reason why you shouldn't
lightly sand your deck to remove the rough spots.
Best Regards, John M. Campbell May
2000
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DO NOT SCRUB WITH THE GRAIN! Use a very
soft brush, and go across the grain.
Teak has a high oil content, but the pith between the longitudinal dense
wood is very soft. Even an ordinary brush will tear it out. I also would avoid
Clorox. It is very harsh on the
pith. Similarly, the various teak
cleaners are loaded with high concentrations of oxalic acid. It is probably OK
for a very rare cleaning, but don't use it on a regular basis.
A friend who had been on a Navy boat
during the second war told me that they had teak decks, and would wash it down
with salt water each day, and then rub it with a hollystone (whatever the hell
that might be!). The salt water would both clean it and prevent growth of
fungus. The hollystone apparently served to smooth it without excavating the
pithy soft wood. I understand this is the long regarded way of taking care of
teak. Avoid washing with fresh water. Salt water is also an excellent
preservative. It is sweetwater that causes rot. Consider how long lasting are
the big beams in a salt mill. Those massive beams were widely sought after for
boat construction as they were so soaked in high salt levels that no
micro-organisms could survive in that environment. It is as good as creosote,
but without the mess.
But do not scrub with the grain as a
routine procedure. You will badly deteriorate your teak deck. Soap and a very
soft brush are OK. There are many soaps that do well in salt water.
Harvey Karten May
2000
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From personal experiences I can describe a
holystone! It is a very large, round lava stone with a hole in the middle. A
large, well-worn stick goes in the middle and the crew swishes it back and
forth with the grain of the deck. The chief deck ape (boatswain) chants, and
the stone is swished back and forth by the crew to the tempo of the chant. A
solid stream of salt water is paid on the deck as the stone is swished and detergent
is thrown in. It is fun if you are watching and not doing.
I don't think there is enough room on
my Tayana to carry an official holystone and I wouldn't look forward to working
for the chief deck ape again! I love teak decks because of the many different
opinions that they create. I would use the bleach if it were me and scrub in a
circular motion with a Scotchbrite...........oh well!!!
Hilleym@ May
2000
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Do
not use brushes on your teak!!! It will take out the softer part of the grain.
Wash with salt water, use a little bleach if there is mildew. Light sanding if
you want it brown. A good teak oil to maintain the brown.
If you don't care about the teak
being brown, wash with salt water and use plastic scrub pads. no brush. Leave
the salt water to dry. The salt is somewhat hygroscopic so the teak will not
dry out excessively. Remember, when teak was the real deck on older ships the
treatment was holystoning and salt water wash.
Earl Potter May
2000
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I hope you have had time to check out the
ftp site to see first hand what a wet core looks like and the type of project
you are looking at. You might consider taking it to a yard in Canada where the
exchange rate is good and have the work done. :-) It took me 5 months of hard
labor. One thing I will say is that everybody says teak is expensive, but so is
Awlgrip. The paint costs as much as bottom paint. The labor involved in
Awlgripping a deck properly is not to be under estimated. 2-3 coats primer and
3-5 coats of Awlgrip. Doing non-skid is not easy. However, personally I still
would not use teak.
I realize at this point that I may be
echoing others but that's because we agree. If your surveyor found delamination
and moisture, you can expect to find the type of core damage you see in my
pictures. The wood turns black and will rot. I think you mentioned chain plates
and Sampson posts as areas that leak. That's what I had plus stanchions and
deck hardware, scuppers and bulwarks and ports. The fore deck was badly
delaminated and wet because of the Sampson posts and bow railing leaks. As were
both side decks from the chain plates and bulwarks etc. Also when you are on a
long wet tack, heeled over, the water collects along the deck/cabin side
and sits there until you tack. Maybe it
gets in along the wood strip or deck cabin joint. Anyway, the water and fungus
will eventually rot the core and the decks will continue to delaminate,
especially with temperature swings below freezing.
So, you can either ignore it, (many
people do and I am not making judgments) but I don't think that is a good thing
for a couple reasons: if your going off shore you should make the decks strong
plus water may eventually get into the cabin and rot bulkheads, which
definitely affects the structural integrity. Or you can fix it. Are you doing coastal or off shore work?
I did not have teak decks. The extent
of the damage was easily determined. The severity of the damage cannot ever be
fully realized until you actually take the teak off plus the top skin. Some
people drill lots of holes in the headliner to take core samples or to let the
water out. That maybe ok to determine if you have a problem but not to
determine the full extent of it.. You may be able to repair a section from
underneath, I did that in my anchor locker but it is not easy to work upside
down. For small areas, it's ok. But in your case the teak needs to be dealt
with anyway. After seeing the amount of
water in my core I am convinced that it would be very difficult to dry it out
by drilling holes and blowing hot air in the holes. Could you ever be sure it
was really dry? I realize there are differing opinions and methods here. In any
case, if your moisture meter is going through the roof, so to speak, you have
very wet core. In your case the teak may make it harder to determine moisture
content because wood reads wet. But from what you said about all the missing
bungs and the leaks in other places, I would suspect lots of water in the core
especially if there is delamination. You can see from my photos that the core
makes for natural canals, voids and dams. Water will travel.
I would think that since you lost
half your bungs already that the teak is getting thin and can not be reused,
plus it will be damaged when you remove it. There are lots of holes for water
to get in. If I was going off shore in that boat I would remove all the teak
and see what was under it. Especially
since you know you have delamination. Some people think the decks are strong
enough even though they are delaminated and they may be right but that's only
part of the equation. What if your bulkheads start getting wet? One thing is
for sure, you have to stop the water.
I would not put teak back on because of
cost, ecology, and maintenance, plus if you ever have deck problems again, you
are right back where you started not knowing what's under them and having to
get them up ( I know someone who used a planer to remove teak decks). If I you do put teak back on, think about
using epoxy to glue them down. Don't put all those screw holes back in your new
deck. Don't use a brittle epoxy, but that's a whole another topic. (great
grammar).
Let me know if you need more.
Ray Slaninka S/V Lorna Doone December 2000
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If I use a thin epoxy between the seams of
teak straking on the deck to obtain a bond between the teak and the
underlying.... (whatever is left of the original goo?), will that be
troublesome as the boat works in a seaway? Even the heavy lay-up of the Tayana
37 shows some flex.
Will the epoxy serve to further limit
access of the saltwater to the stainless screws, which causes some of the
loosening, and the black staining of ferritic oxidation of stainless?
Harvey October 2001
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Harvey
Having just put down a new teak deck
I have some knowledge on this. The key to keeping the water out of the area
between the bottom of the teak and the glass deck is in the caulking.
When recaulking the sealant
manufacturers recommend coating the slot with a special light epoxy then laying
down a thin strip of 3M tape in the bottom of the slot, the tape should be as
close to the width of the slot as possible.
Next the sealant is applied whether it be
polysulphide or the more modern polyurethane based products. Polysulphide lasts
longer but takes longer to cure, polyurethane's have better adherence qualities
and cure faster.
The theory behind the tape in the
bottom of the slot prevent stressing the sealant from 3 sides. As the
temperature changes or the boat moves the sealant is much more likely to keep
its bond to the sides of the slot if it is not bonded to the bottom of the
slot.
I chose the 3M teak seam sealant and
primer as polysulphides are not available here. If I had the choice I might
still go polyurethane due to its adherence qualities.
Bill Moloney Kara Rose #34 October 2001
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Rich,
thanks for your info on making the caulk removal tool and the necessary
medications and precautions, etc.:)
In searching the web I found the
following web site which has excellent instructions on recaulking a teak deck.
I highly recommend that those contemplating this chore check it out. The web
site is www.yandina.com/TeakDeck.htm#Background .
Also, at the above web site there is
a reference to Fein tools and their new Teak Blades for fast
removal of polyurethane sealant. If you have a Fein tool already, as I do, I
hope the new Teak blades will fit and will let you all know. I will contact
Fein on Monday. If you own a boat with lots of wood you could not own a better
tool than the Fein. I have used one for years and it does many tasks and has
many accessories. Now I can remove caulking from teak decks fast and easy!
There must be a God! Anyway, you can check out the Fein Multimaster tool
and the teak blades (found in the section called Cutting Blades in the index)
at the following web site: http://feinus.com/p/newmultimaster/multimaster-VS-XL.htm
and hopefully this could be the tool that will make maintaining the teak decks
much easier. I'm going for the teak blades ASAP and if need be I'll get a new
tool if the blades don't fit my old Fein.
I hope these blades really work and
if they do as advertised it would sure help all of us trying to keep up our
gorgeous teak decks. If anyone has any experience with the Fein and the new
Teak Blades please let us know how it worked and what you think.
Regards, John Keefe ODYSSEA December 2001
(2005: try also)
www.jamestowndistributors.com/product;part;5389;process;search;ID;,Tools,Power.Tools,Fein.Power.Tools,Fein.Multimaster,Fein.Multimaster.MSXE
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The Fein tool that I have used for years is
used mostly for sanding tight corners, etc., using the triangular sanding pad
with Velcro so that the sand paper (also with Velcro) is easily changed from
grit to grit. Then, I often use the round saw blade which is a 3 1/8"
diameter metal disc with small teeth all around the circumference and its cuts
neatly and cleanly through plastic, fiberglass, wood, etc. I love it. The part
number is #6-35-02-097-02-7. It has been invaluable.
Monday or Tuesday this week, I
ordered the Teak Blade #6-39-03-202-01-9 which digs out a gap 5 mm across. I
thought I would give this size a try. It is shaped in a "U" shape. I
called and talked to a Fein engineer and he said that using the Teak Blade will
work real good but, even better, using the above saw blade on the edges of the
gap or bead of caulk and then use the Teak Blade would be ideal. So, that is
what I plan to try. I should have the Teak Blade in 1 to 2 weeks as my local
Fein tool distributor didn't have it in stock. Once I get all the caulk out of
all the seams I'll then use my Dermal Tool with a 1/4" rotary bit to enlarge
all the gaps to 1/4" wide. It does a good job of it. I think wider gaps
are better than narrow ones and I did this to the forward hatch and
companionway main hatch and it looks good and more caulking in the gap will
hold up much better.
Note that the Fein tools and
accessories are pricey and not cheap. But, don't hesitate as they are of first
rate quality and will last. You get what you pay for when it comes to tools.
Before I bought the Fein sander I burned out 2 cheap models of another brand
and finally the place where I buy my tools persuaded me to by the Fein. I'm
glad they convinced me. It has been dropped, slammed, used hours and hours and
still works like new. Just for the record I'm in no way connected to Fein, etc.
It's good stuff. Let us know how you
make out with Fein.
Regards, John Keefe Odyssea December 2001
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I've seen many projects where people
recommend cutting/drilling holes and then letting the sun dry it out. I use a
wet/dry vacuum to determine how much water is there and for most of the
removal. The hotter the sun, the more a teak deck swells and pushes out the
water. A good vacuum will remove water at a prodigious rate...
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At the Fein web site, main page, click on
the button called "Cutting" located on the left side of the page. It
will take you to the below page.
http://feinus.com/multimaster/newimages/newcutting.htm
Go to the bottom of the page and find
"TEAK BLADES" and there are 3 sizes available and I bought the 5 MM
wide one, part no. 6-39-03-202-01-9. You may have to have it ordered in for
you.
Regards, John Keefe ODYSSEA January
2002
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Go to the main page of the web site again
and the one Fein tool called the Fein MultiMaster Start is the basic
tool with some accessories. That is the one or you can get the battery powered
one. They all take the attachments or accessories that are available.
Then go to the left of the main page
and click on the index button called "Cutting." Go to the end of that
page and you'll find "Teak Blades." There are three widths and I
chose the 5MM wide one.
Also, go to the Tayana FTP site and
look for the folder "Odyssea's Fein Tool" and you will see pictures
of my Fein Tool (a few years old) with the attached Teak Blade.
Hope this helps. If not just let me
know.
Regards, John Keefe ODYSSEA January
2002
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Because of a recent mention of using the
Fein Multimaster with handy-dandy de-caulking blade, I scooted out yesterday
and invested in the tool. Yippee! It
really does what everyone said it did, and then some! I used the 3mm
de-caulking blade and it made very short work of the old teak caulk. Oh sure, I
still needed to touch up places here and there but by and large it's an amazing
tool.
Today I got the idea to use the buffing pad
with a little Flitz metal polishing compound on a few stanchion mounts. Yippee
again!
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I'm
finding a LOT of great information on the list.
All
the best -- John Kalpus Prudence February 2002
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Unfortunately, we now have to replace some
bungs on deck. What is the best caulk/adhesive to use when replacing them?
Bill Truxall May
2002
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I am mixing small amounts of cold cure epoxy
and dipping the bung before inserting. Do get one of those bung saws ( teeth
only on one side ) at Sears etc...wonderful ...rather than chipping of the
excess bung.
Denis S/V Tayana May
2002
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Some people suggest using resorcinol glue.
Said to have excellent waterproofing ability.
I have used a bit of life-caulk sealant with decent results. A sharp
chisel, followed by sandpaper helps smooth it down to an even finish.
regards,
_____________________________________________________________________________
Try Borden's plastic resin glue. It comes in
powder, mixes with water to your own required consistency, you pick it up at a hardware
store, several hours pot life and damn close to teak in color.
Bob May
2002
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We use either epoxy of Cetol. Some suggest
varnish to seal bungs. I also use a chisel followed by sanding.
Joe Sprouse Sojourn - Now with a
mast..... May
2002
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Perhaps the easiest might be one of the
polyurethane glues like Gorilla Glue. They are completely waterproof, slightly
gap filling, and strong as he##. All you
would do is dip the bung in H2O smear on the glue and insert. Not near the
terrible mess and short working time of epoxy, nor as toxic as resorcinol also
limited pot life. Excess cleans off easily.
Author unknown May
2002
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Yes it is. Veritas also makes a beauty of
this tool. You could find it at a woodworking store. They may also be called a
cut-off saw. They do not always have teeth on just one side. The important
thing is no set to the teeth on the side touching the woodwork.
John Reynolds May
2002
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I just received a flyer from Woodcraft
yesterday. In it was exactly what you are talking about. English Flush Cutting
Saw, item # 126296, $14.99. www.Woodcraft.com. Hope this helps.
John
Reynolds May 2002
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Joe:
Thanks for the URL. Jamestown has a flexible bladed Japanese dovetail saw with
a 0.02" kerf which they say works well with flush cuts of bungs. (Item #
SS102204 -- $14.63) I've dealt with Jamestown in the past, and believe they are
a good outfit.
Dayton Eckerson May
2002
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Happy
Sailing Friends...
Prudence's teak decks are looking a bit
dingy over the years with black stains and a mottled appearance. I use a
freshwater wash frequently on the decks and always notice a dark residue coming
off the surface. The decks now are a salt and pepper dark gray color.
I though I'd put together an oxalic
acid rinse and see what happens. I mixed up a batch of about 1/2 cup acid to 1
gallon water, as per the West Marine Oxalic Acid instructions. Luckily, I tried
it only on a hatch cover of about one square foot.
I couldn't believe my eyes!!! The
dark steaks IMMEDIATELY washed away and when the wood dried I was left with a
light brown teak surface completely free of dinginess. It looks now like I've
spent hours sanding the deck.
So now I'm wondering if I've damaged
the teak at all - or removed all the helpful teak oils in the process, or have
I simply discovered what every teak-deck-owner knows?
Oh, let me in to the Inner Teak
Knowledge Circle, wise sailors that you are. Also, should I now be concerned
with "oiling" my soon-to-be completely oxalic-acidized teak decks????
Fair winds... John Kalpus Prudence CT37 San Diego August
2002
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I use a wash of TSP – trisodiumphosphate -
to etch the teak surface, then apply oxalic to bleach it. I do this every 18
months. The TSP will actually dissolve
the surface 'gray' (a few thousandths) and the oxalic will effect the bleaching
but not so much destruction as the TSP.
The TSP does loosen a few bungs ....
but that’s what I’m looking for: loose bungs that need to be
resealed/replaced. TSP and then Oxalic
is an very aggressive chemical etch, almost to the aggressiveness of the use of
a belt sander. But then I change my tee-shirts occasionally and don’t let them
get 'gray' either. ;-)
Rich
Hampel August
2002
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Thanks for all the great
information regarding cleaning the teak decks on Prudence. After careful
thought, I tried Gary's suggestion above using his recipe of detergent, bleach
and water. Yes, this did clean up some of the 25+ years of debris on the decks.
Unfortunately, I felt that it didn't clean it up enough. So....I used a mild
mixture of Oxalic acid and water, and, after wetting down the whole deck and
hull, I lightly scrubbed the mixture into the decking and then liberally rinsed
off the whole deck. It worked like a charm! Prudence's decks are now (mostly)
clean, the acid didn't raise the grain perceptibly, and I only lost one bung
that should have come out anyway.
One note, DON'T bother buying the
acid at West Marine, unless you've got money to burn. It's not that it's really
expensive at WM, about $10 for a 16 ounce container, it's just that you can
probably find it at a ship's chandlery for about $2.50 / pound as I did at
Downwind Marine in San Diego.
Incidentally, oxalic acid also nicely
cleans up any stains on fiberglass from rust, etc. It won't hurt fiberglass at
all.
I'll be posting a few pics on the TOG
website shortly.
John Kalpus Prudence CT37 San
Diego September 2002
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I am striping all of my exterior teak
and have noticed that one of the handrails is loose in a few spots. Can someone
suggest the best way to remove and the replace the teak plugs that cover the
screws? Does it require any special tools? Also, should I use 5200 to rebed the
hand rail or polysulfide?
Alan Jett Peace and Quiet #499 September 2002
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Take a small thin screwdriver and with the
blade of the screwdriver aligned with the grain of the plug tap the driver
until the plug splits. Make several splits into the plug to break it up.
Carefully remove (with dental pick, etc.) the remaining plug that adheres to
the bore of the hole. Remove the attachment screw. Trim the hole with a
3/8" diameter "counterbore" (available at woodworking supply
like Jamestown, Sears, etc.) Reset the screw, caulk, etc. Apply and wet the
bore of the hole with VARNISH, soak the plug in varnish and apply the plug to
the hole while aligning the grain of the plug with the grain of the rail. Tap
the plug into the hole until seated.
Take a razor sharp chisel (with the bevel down) and knock off the top of
the plug so that there is about 1/8" of plug sticking out of the hole,
this will establish which way the grain is laying horizontally - there will one
side that is a bit higher than the other; from the lower end take the chisel
and slowly slice/shave the plug flat to the surface. Most times if the chisel is razor sharp, you
won’t have to sand the surface.
DONT USE epoxy, polyester, 5200 to
set the plug (unless the plug is less than 3/16" deep).... as you wont be
able to remove it later without a lot of destruction to the hole: tear-outs,
cracks, chips etc.
Tayana plugs are mostly 3/8"
diameter. The plugs offered by WEST and Boat/US are constructed with a slight
bore taper and will fit very tightly when reinstalled. If you have a lot of
plugs to reseat, consider to buy a plug cutter from Jamestown, etc. and make
your own.
Rich
Hampel September 2002
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I have taken to washing off the stainless
with fresh water, as I found the same thing. I also try to avoid washing canvas
with salt water, as the dried crystals of salt are not good for the cloth.
However, salt water is excellent preservative for teak, abolishes growth of the
black mold and actually improves the appearance. The washdown is certainly
helpful for washing off the crud from the anchor, as you point out.
The traditional treatment of teak
decks was salt water wash and rubbing it down with a holystone. This method was
used for many generations, and even was used by the U.S. Navy on many of their
teak decked boats during WW II.
Harvey Karten September 2002
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Hi
Harvey,
Yes salt water was the traditional
treatment for teak, due to the chlorine content. However, try the Clorox treatment
and you will be amazed at the result.
A Little Hindsight - Prior to WWII
the standard practice for bad wounds was to amputate or cauterize. Since
penicillin was massed produced by the Army effort, treatments have changed.
Every day is a NEW day!
The Tide - Clorox treatment was
taught to me by the builder of Burger King restaurants. Met him sailing in
Mexico.
:>) Jim Clemens s/v
"Athena" September 2002
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Jim,
How much free chlorine is contained
in salt water? I had the probably erroneous impression that there is very
little free chlorine in salt water. The
action of Chlorox, I thought, was due to the presence of free hypochlorite.
Doesn't that transfer a free oxygen radical to "clean" things by
oxidation? It's been a while since I worked in chemistry, but I had some vague
recollections of some such action.
Perhaps the salt water works as it
evaporates and produces a very high salinity solution which causes most
organisms to die off (as in the Great Salt Lake and in the Dead Sea). I suspect
that there must be an expert chemist in our group who can help clarify this. In
fact, I might be somewhat hesitant to use too strong a solution of Clorox on
the decks, as it may cause damage to both the user and the decks.
Harvey September 2002
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Harvey, weren't you the one that warned
about using oxalic acid? I used it
without gloves or long sleeves last year and for the first time in my life
had a kidney stones problem...I wonder if the oxalic acid caused them.
Dan September
2002
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Dan,
Oxalic acid, if not immediately fatal, can
cause calcific deposits in renal tubules, but that is usually the least of the
victims problems. I don't know if it can produce the larger kidney stones
(calculi) that you may have experienced. That might be coincidental. It may be
possible, but that is out of my realm of experience. You might search the web
for info on that. I also suggest that you consult a toxicologist.
Oxalic is highly toxic. It binds blood
calcium, causing it to fall to fatal levels. I think that the widely described
alkali springs in the desert that caused water starved drinkers to quench
themselves and die, was due to the high oxalate levels.
It is an EXTREMELY dangerous material to
use, and I suggest that anyone planning to use it, read the following:
http://157.98.10.135/NTP_Reports/NTP_Chem_HS_HTML/NTP_Chem1/Radian144-62-7.html
The fact that it is so freely available
should not be construed to mean that it is safe. It should be used with
respirator, Neoprene gloves, and possibly Tyvek suit. People with history of
seizure disorders may be particularly vulnerable. It is absorbed through the
skin.
My
view is that it would be safer to have slightly dirty teak decks. But this
touches on the very broad area of toxic substances on a boat. I am one of many
who are guilty of failing to exercise adequate caution. Just a few examples of
things I have foolishly done over the past year include painting in the bilge
using urethane paint and without a respirator. Using varnish stripper on a calm
day without a respirator (and that was outdoors!) with a resulting headache,
nausea, etc. Removing varnish with heat gun without a respirator. This doesn't
even come close to the more obvious stupidities such as trying to lift a golf
cart battery from a bad angle and failing to use a proper lifting tool -
risking dropping and spilling sulfuric acid, as well potentially damaging my
back. Cutting fiberglass with a jigsaw without mask and special clothing,
resulting in glass dust in skin, hair, lungs, etc. And that's just on the boat!
(I'm actually far more careful in the lab, where I know the consequences of
exposure to dangerous materials.)
There is little doubt but that a boat is
dangerous to your health. We like to think that it will get us outdoors in a
healthy environment.
______________________________________________________________________________
I've had the most success removing bungs by
drilling a hole that is slightly smaller than the bung and then worrying the
rest of the bung out with a small screwdriver or nut pick. I have damaged the
area around the hole when I tried to remove the bung by backing out the screw
underneath it so I don't recommend that method.
When you replace the bung, put a thin
coat of whatever you are going to refinish the handrail with on the bung, align
its grain carefully with that of the rail and tap it home. Use a very sharp
chisel to trim it. Sand, refinish and you're done.
Coleman Blake Traveler T-37 #328 January 2003
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I have purchased lumber and plywood
from these people several times and have been please. They ship UPS ground.
Boulter Plywood Corp. www.boulterplywood.com
Alan Jett April 2003
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I have been using a mix of teak oils to get
longevity and even wear on my teak decks. It seems to work just as well on my
teak outboard-motor storage mounts. And it shows absolutely no wear from
walking on it. This concoction should work on trim as well. It is half Teak
Wonder and half Semco Natural. It lasts 4 to 6 months before touchup is needed
but, more importantly, it wears away rather evenly without blotching.
For the last year, I have been
experimenting with adding some Olympic deck stain to the mix - maybe 20 to 25
per cent (semi-transparent, caramel color). Adds a little reddish hue like
fresh teak, seems to last as long if not a little longer, and seems to wear off
evenly.
(2005
Update: See “Decks_Teak_Oil_Test” on the
FTP site at http://tognews.com/ftpfiles/ for the latest teak oil used and the
results of an 18-month test.)
______________________________________________________________________________
Here is a good web site for some
information on recaulking your teak decks:
http://www.yandina.com/TeakDeck.htm
Also, the Fein Multimaster tool (http://feinus.com)
used with the caulking removal bits (Teak Blades) works very good. Fein tools
are pricey but worth it in my opinion. I have yet to start in earnest to attack
the entire deck caulking (finishing up other projects) but have used it to
completely recaulk the hatches and it works great. I couldn't imagine doing it
any other way. Check out the Fein web site and note all the accessories for the
tool. The bits work by slicing through the caulk and lifting it out of the
groove. The bits come in 3 different widths (3mm, 4mm, and 5mm) and I bought
all three as there are different widths of caulk on my boat. You can even make
the grooves wider up to about 1/4 inch wide as it can slice through the teak, too.
I plan on making them all 5mm wide if possible but there may be some that will
be narrow. You have to get the hang of the tool but once you do it sure beats
doing it the old way. Jamestown Distributors (www.jamestowndistributors.com)
has all the Fein stuff as well as other distributors of boat building and
woodworking supplies who carry tools.
Also, check out Don Casey's book,
"Sailboat Hull & Deck Repair" for some good basic bung repair
procedures as well as replacing planks, etc.
Regards, John Keefe CT37 Odyssea Youngstown,
NY June
2003
______________________________________________________________________________
In just doing our cockpit and spray hood/hatch
cover, I bent the tang of a file 90 degrees and sharpened the edge and taped
the file for a handle. This removes seam sealer with the price of a replacement
file, it was needed anyway. Yup, takes a little elbow grease. Possibly, if we
had the entire deck to contend with, a more modern convenience might have been
used. My cash priorities are a little different. http://www.boatlife.com/howto.htm
describes in detail the guidelines for replacing teak seam sealer.
Joe Sprouse Sojourn June
2003
______________________________________________________________________________
We used the two part life caulk teak seam
sealer. Open the can from the bottom with a can opener so as to not lose any of
the catalyst. As the directions say, fills about 2 1/2 caulk tubes. On a hot
day, keep the reserve filled tubes in a cool place on top of the beer. Overfill
the seams slightly as it will flow into the seam. We found it easy to work
with. The hatch, spray hood and cockpit took 2 quarts. A few days later, we wet
back with a new tube of one part to catch the "holidays". We then
sanded the old weathered teak and it looks great. Keep in mind, everything is
relative.
Joe Sprouse Sojourn June
2003
______________________________________________________________________________
Hello all.
I have a CT 37 that needs some recaulking on deck. What does everyone
use to remove old caulking? A straight screwdriver, a file, what?
Thanks, Paul, S/V Renaissance St Helens, OR September 2003
______________________________________________________________________________
Hi Paul, et al...
You'll hear this from many people: invest
about $160-$200 in a Fein Multimaster electric tool as well as ~$30 each for
the 3,4 and/or 5mm caulk removing blade. The Fein tool is an electric tool
which vibrates the attached blades/saws/scrapers, etc. Instead of rotating a
blade with the commensurate dust, the Fein oscillates side to side and will
ease the old caulk nicely out if its channel.
You can learn more at:
http://www.feinus.com/p/newmultimaster/MultiMaster.htm
I purchased mine locally in
Additionally, there are many
different types of attachments for the fine, notably the sanding attachments. I
use mine all the time on Prudence for sanding wood and fiberglass. There is
also a nifty "finger" sanding attachment which allows for sanding in
betwixt all those many louvers on locker doors.
The caulking attachments are costly,
around $25-40 each, but very strong.
They should last a good long time. Good luck!
Don't forget to check the Sailnet TOG
website for photos. I know there's a few pics of the Fein tool in action. ftp://ftp.sailnet.com/Tayana/
John Kalpus Prudence Tayana 37 San Diego September 2003
______________________________________________________________________________
Fein also makes a cordless version
which I bought in the Spring. I love
this tool for working on the boat. Buy an extra battery and you've cut the cord
for good. I bought mine at 7 Corners
Hardware in St Paul MN. They also go by Tools On Sale. http://www.7corners.com
. I leave the cord version at
home (most umph) and use the cordless on the boat.
Bruce September 2003
______________________________________________________________________________
I am having my first go with teak decks
also. The yard that made some other repairs said to use 5-minute epoxy. I
checked every bung for looseness and replaced over 200 or so with epoxy. I then
removed the excess bung, faired it flush with a wood chisel and then sanded it
lightly with a little fine grit. Right or wrong, it seemed to work ok. The
trawler next door with teak decks questioned whether the bungs would remove easy.
I had to redo a couple and dug the new epoxy out with a sharp awl. Not easy,
but doable. I notice one or two new bungs popped back out and the new epoxy is
still there. Apparently water tight. Don't know why yet. I will have to dig it
out and redo it with new epoxy again. The caulking is still fair and will
probably last the winter.
What next? I was told to sand carefully
across the grain to remove the ridges.
Let me know what you decide to do.
Bill S/V Marissa Tayana V-42 CC September 2003
______________________________________________________________________________
I have drilled out and set new screws
over about 20% of my deck and am now ready to plug the holes with teak bungs.
My question: what do I use to "glue" the plugs in place? I have heard
two radically different techniques: varnish and epoxy. Are either of these
worth considering. Epoxy should last, but will not be easily replaceable in the
future. Will varnish hold? Is there something
else I should consider?
Mark
Handley September 2003
______________________________________________________________________________
For bung holes greater of depth than
1/4", use varnish. For holes less than ¼”, use epoxy or polyester.
Rich Hampel September 2003
______________________________________________________________________________
Thanks for all the suggestions on gluing
teak bungs. I did it today - I used varnish as I had plenty of teak to recess
the screws fairly deep = and the varnish seems to be holding quite well as I
chipped off the excess = bung. I plan to sand the entire deck as it has worn
quite badly and unevenly. Then what??? I don't want something that will take
lots of time maintaining. Another boater here suggested sealing with Semco.
Others = say to leave it gray. Any thoughts on this next step???
Mark Handley September 2003
______________________________________________________________________________
I would not recommend doing the decks
with Semco. Semco does react with the deck caulking, causing it to crack
(possibly because it makes it brittle). I learned this the hard way in the teak
cockpit of a prior Ta Yang-built boat I owned.
Regarding those asking about Cetol
compatibility with teak deck calk, Similar to other reports I've seen in recent
posts I can agree -- no problems with Cetol. The prior owner of our boat had
used Cetol on their deck, and we've continued for the last 4 years. No problems
whatsoever so far.
Bill Rohde September 2003
______________________________________________________________________________
Uneven grain isn't really a
detriment. Proud growth rings will be a better foot holding pattern than a deck
that is flat sanded. If you are totally recaulking, then and only then IMHO
should you flat sand the deck. The purpose of the flat sanding is only to gain
a good masking line for the caulk!
If what you're looking for is a 'good
looking' deck. Don’t sand, simply etch the deck with trisodium phosphate (TSP)
to remove the gray (need to use a bronze wool pad (and the judicious use of a
scraper) to take off the high spots, followed by a bleach with oxalic acid
(followed by a reinstallation of loose bungs). The result will be a deck that
looks new but will have the proud growth ring patterns that will be the best
anti-skid. Difficulty is that the bare
teak will soon return to gray. If you
seal or add an oil finish or Semco or Cetol, etc. ... you might as well wear
ice skates.
The best to keep a deck from turning
gray (and with tight fitting bungs) is a daily splash of salt water or to
scatter salt crystals. With my boat
right now I don’t sail every day and I do like a good-looking deck (I don’t
wear grungy gray tee shirts either). I am seriously contemplating using a thin
hydrophobic but vapor permeable deck cover that will roll up easily into a very
small package. It’s the same stuff used on ultra-fine automobile covers, called
Nextec. For a few bucks I can sew up a deck cover for each side with Velcro
fasteners for the stanchions etc., roll it into a small ball when sailing, have
good looking decks without the destruction of constant sanding, etching
etc. This winter I will build a cover
for the cockpit seats and try it for a while and let everyone know how it turns
out. I use a Nextec cover for my sports car: its breathable, protects the
surface from UV, is machine washable and rolls up into a small ball when stored
sounds exactly like what I need for my teak deck!.
Don’t oil, don’t seal ..... only
thing left is to cover!
Rich Hampel September 2003
______________________________________________________________________________
We used the Teak Decking Caulk in a tube.
Seems to work well. Mask the edges, apply with a caulking gun, and remove
masking. We applied the caulking 'proud', then after curing trimmed it off with
a razor blade laid flat. Sliced one continuous cut and did not 'whittle' it
down.
Michael Kahler S/V Liberation T37PH January 2004
______________________________________________________________________________
I am very interested to see how you used
the laminate trimmer and flex wood batten in removing the caulk from your
decks.
I've ordered the back issue of DIY
but in the meantime could you elaborate a little on the use of the batten?
Finally, what caulking did you
select? I know you probably answered these questions in the DIY article but for
those just curious and those who just can't wait, you answers would be most appreciated.
John Keefe Odyssea CT37 Youngstown,
NY March
2004
______________________________________________________________________________
John,
We used a narrow (about 1/2"
wide) strip cut from a 1/4" thick 4'x8' sheet of oakum plywood liberated
from a nearby boat builder. This batten took a smooth curve when tacked in an
adjacent seam as a guide for the laminate trimmer. The batten was held in place
with 1/2" brass brads, about one every linear foot.
I'd be happy to post some pictures at
the FTP site if you can tell me how to do it.
I used BoatLife's two-part, pourable
caulk. It's easy to work with and readily available. My DIY article describes
the whole process step-by-step and includes a list of materials/tools
(including costs) and estimated times. For additional information, visit http://www.boatlife.com/howto.htm
Sue Canfield March
2004
(See Sue’s detailed article on teak deck refinishing at http://tognews.com/ftpfiles/Decks_TeakTherapy_SueCanfield/ )
______________________________________________________________________________
One of the continuing problems on a many
boats, is leakage around the chainplates. In the case of the Tayana 37, it
results in water intrusion into the lockers, but even more damaging, leakage
into the gusset containing the studs and plywood filler.
Previous notes commented on removing
the chainplates and finding some fibrous material under the caulking. This was
almost certainly packing used to hold the caulking in place as it cured. But a
fundamental problem was the lack of a decent caulking compound appropriate to the
task. Chainplates work back and forth and from side to side. Choice of suitable
caulking plays a major role in effecting a long term solution to the problem of
leakage.
In a recent thread, some people suggested
using Silaprene, from Uniroyal, with reportedly favorable results. Part of the
difficulty is obtaining it, and I couldn't find data on its durability in a
marine environment (salt, sun, high pressure bearing, stretch).
While recently re-caulking our decks,
I started to use TDS (Teak Decking Systems) SIS 440. This is an oxime rubber
with a small amount of silicone. In
discussions with the company, they state that it provides 400% stretch and
still remains intact and flexible. They claim durability of about 20 years. It
is very easy to use, as it flows easily, is easily forced into gaps with a
simple putty knife, the initial curing forms a skin within 5-7 minutes (so you
have to remove the tape immediately), and has a good level of curing within 24
hours. It can be sanded easily. If you have to add more of the caulking, sand
it, groove it slightly with a knife or razor blade, wash with acetone, and add
more caulking for a good bond. It sticks to metal, fiberglass, wood, with
excellent tenacity. After packing the gap around the chainplate, some
additional material can be placed on the deck to bed the chain plate Stainless
Steel cover plate.
I spoke with the factory rep again
about its suitability for chainplates and he said that it should be quite good
for that, and is also gaining wider usage as a bedding compound for deck
hardware.
Although it is moderately pricey
($13-20 for a 10 Oz. cartridge, price depending upon local suppliers choice),
it is readily available at many marine chandleries (e.g. San Diego Marine
Exchange on Shelter Island, Jamestown Distributors). There are other brands now
on the market with a similar chemistry available from Jamestown. I don't know
if the Boat-Life Silicone Deck Sealant is of the same composition. The price is
about the same, but there is no information on the tube or the website. It can
be cut or carved with a sharp razor, but best to tape around the deck before
using. It is available in black and
white. I don't know if the white material tends to yellow with age.
It will take only a short time to
find out if it forms a good seal, but several years to learn if it lasts.
I plan to use it to re-bed our chain
plates this weekend. (More on the chainplates on another occasion).
regards,
______________________________________________________________________________
Yikes,....I cringe every time I here
the word "silicone"! I swore I would never.... ever... use it on any
of my stuff, again. I found that you can never remove all the remnants of normal
silicone without eventually having to sand it off. It is so difficult to
completely remove from a surface. Also, it just gives up its grip over time.
However, does the material texture of
the TDS look and feel as silicone when cured? Initially, does it adhere to a
surface tenaciously and upon it's removal leave that difficult to remove
residue like regular silicone? Can you remove the residue with mineral spirits
or acetone? I am very interested to see how you like it over a long period of
time and specifically how it holds up to the elements. I have heard many good
things about the stuff but still used the 2 Part Boat Life Seam Sealant when
re-caulking my deck. I paid about $35.00 a quart and each quart filled up ~2.75
empty 10 oz. cartridges or tubes. The price seems about the same per 10-oz
tube. If it works to seal up chain
plates and lasts for 2 to 3 years that would be just darn terrific.
Just for chuckles, I had a friend
tell me that he coats all his chain plate caulking with that liquid black
electrical sealing compound. The stuff that is in the small can and used to
coat electrical terminals to waterproof them, etc. He says his chain plates do
not leak because every so often he just coats the caulking with this stuff.
Also, I bought some of that Rapid
Coat stain/sealer for teak. I tried it on a piece of bare teak and it has all
the application properties and look of a polyurethane type product, that is, a
high "artificial" gloss. The pigment in it gives it a brown hue, too.
It still doesn't compare 100% to a top of the line varnish, of course, but it
is not bad. However, I might be crazy, but..... four coats (max) of Cetol Light
gives my teak a decent look. But it doesn't have a gloss just a nice satin look
to it. Still can't make up my mind as to which one to use. I go back and forth.
All my teak is bare awaiting the decision. This dilemma keeps me awake at night
until I can't stand it any longer and must turn on Coast2Coast to fall asleep!
John Keefe ODYSSEA CT-37 No. 63 Youngstown, NY October 2004
______________________________________________________________________________
John,
I fully appreciate your feeling about
silicone. But the claim that TDS lasts for at least 20 years means that I will have
to repeat it just after my 89th birthday. Maybe with a bit of luck,
I won't have to do it until my 92nd birthday? The reason I like it
is that it does not feel like silicon. I think it only contains a small amount
of silicone combined with an Oxime rubber, and it is some type of silicone
formulation that is not as troublesome. But who knows about this stuff. It's a
bit like a do-hickey with a lifetime warranty. I have only used TDS so far on
the teak deck seams. I pump it into the seams, flatten it down with a putty
knife to eliminate air pockets, pull off the tape (must be done within 5-7
minutes of using the TDS), let it cure for a day or two, and then start
sanding. It gives a nice non-glossy finish, matte like finish, to the caulking.
Neat idea about that liquid
electrical tape. The same material, but with a white color is also available.
It can also be used as "Liquid Whipping" for rope ends. I put some of
the white stuff on the end of some of my double braid Dacron lines about 5 years
ago, and it is still holding the rope perfectly well, without evidence of
fraying. But it doesn't feel very flexible, so I don't know how it would handle
the normal flex of chainplates when they are working in the ocean.
As for the Epifanes
RapidCoat/RapidClear, I like the color better than Cetol. But the truth is that
none of those compounds are anywhere near as elegant or glistening as a true
varnish. However, they do last a long time, and are very easy to patch if you
happen to ding it. Not true of the real varnishes. I also can put on 2-3 coats
in a day, and it is nowhere near as finicky as varnish when it comes to
humidity, air temperature, etc. I decided that it's a reasonable compromise.
When I get my new Hinckley 52, I'll hire someone else to do the varnish work.
But for the next 20 years, I may stick with Epifanes RapidClear.
regards,
______________________________________________________________________________
In regard to your question about
"DIY", it is a magazine called "DIY Boat Owner" which
stands for do it yourself. You can find it at West Marine, etc. They have a web
site: www.diy-boat.com
or call 1 888 658-boat. Check it out it's very good. Sue Canfield published her
article about teak deck care in the "Year 2002, issue #4" and in it
she describes the procedure used on her T37 to maintain, sand, refasten and
recaulk her boat. I pretty much followed her advice and it worked out great. I ordered the back issue on-line and it came
in a few days. It is well worth it. My teak deck came out looking awesome with
nice tight seams and a joy to walk on with bare feet. They're good for another
25 years.
Harvey had kindly posted to the ftp
site some pictures I took of my project but I think that the folder was zapped
from the site when the computer change-over occurred. I'll check again and if
it is indeed missing I'll put together another folder of pics and I know Harvey
will post them up there again for me. Thanks in advance, Harvey! I'll include a
text file describing what I did, too, just give me a little time to get it all
together. In the meantime and/or later on if you have any questions just ask
away.
Hope this helps and Happy
Thanksgiving to all!
John Keefe CT37 No.63 ODYSSEA Youngstown,
NY November 2004
______________________________________________________________________________
I will probably be rebuilding, regrooving
and recaulking my deck this spring. So
far my choice of caulk is a single part rubber supplied by Teak Deck Systems
... used on commercial shipping applications.
http://www.teakdecking.com/products.htm
I also plan to seal the teak with a (soon
to be banned) fluorophosphates waterproofing solution --- just like they do on
commercial vessels and megayachts.
Rich
Hampel January 2005
______________________________________________________________________________
I used the BoatLife 2 Part seam sealant in
quarts when I did my teak decks. I regrooved, rebunged, and treated each of the
bung screw holes with 3 or 4 treatments of CPES, too. I also put in a bond
breaker in every inch of the seams. Using the two part stuff was a lot of work
because you only have 20 minutes or so to get it in the groove and it is a PITA
to mix, pour into empty cartridges, etc. I thought about the Teak Deck System
sealant (part silicone in makeup) but it seemed much to easy! I'm a
traditionalist and like pain and suffering and doing things the old school way.....however,
if I was to do it again, I'd try the TDS sealant already in the tube and ready
to go. I hear it is good stuff but I don't know of anyone personally who has
used it. FWIW.
John
Keefe CT37 No.63 ODYSSEA Youngstown,
NY January 2005
______________________________________________________________________________
Hi
John,
I have used it to recaulk my cockpit
benches and, so far - the two aft chain plates. There are some really nice
qualities to this stuff. It has a low enough viscosity that it can easily be
pushed into the groove as you draw the tip of your caulking gun towards you. If
you have stuff left in the tube, put a piece of saran wrap over the tip, and
the rest of the tube should last several weeks. When I want to use the
remainder of the tube, I just pull out a bit of the extruded and cured
material, and then start caulking again. That is definitely something that you
can't do with the two-part caulking.
The big critical operation when you
use it, is to make sure that you fill the gap, then go over it immediately with
a flexible plastic putty knife to leave a slight upwards bulge. Then
IMMEDIATELY after that remove all the masking tape on each side of the seam.
You have less than five minutes to get rid of the masking tape. Delaying that
removal allows the TDS to form a skin that adheres to the edge of the masking
tape. If you wait too long, and then remove the masking tape, it causes the TDS
to lift up and makes a sunken hollow in the seam and the part that pulls up
makes something that looks like a wave. The seam is still solidly water tight,
but doesn't look well, and can't be sanded to final finish. Fixing it at that
point is said to be easy, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. (I spoke to
the people at TDS in Florida, and found them very helpful and encouraging). You
can just rough up the surface with a 120 or 85 grit, wash with acetone, and put
additional TDS on top. It will reportedly bond completely to the underlying
material. When I tried this with other caulkings, they would eventually just
peel off at the plane of juncture. If this works according to their
description, that alone is reason enough to use their stuff.
It comes in black and white. It's
fairly pricey, at about $20 a tube at the local chandlery, about $13 a tube if
you have a discount account.
I have not had it in place long
enough to make any long term judgments, but I spoke with a man at last year's
Wooden Boat Festival in Port Townsend who had used it on his cockpit and decks
a few years ago. It looks fabulous, and he said that it never showed signs of
shrinkage or loss of bonding to the wood.
regards,
______________________________________________________________________________
Hi
Harvey,
Your
comments on the TDS sealant are very interesting and if I had to do it all over
again I would give it a try.
Price wise, I paid around $34.00 for
a quart of BoatLife 2 Part Sealant which works out to about $1.07 per ounce Vs
TDS (10 oz. tube) at $14.00 which is about $1.40 per ounce or about 30% more to
do the job. But, I had to buy empty cartridges to put the mix in, etc. so as
far as I would be concerned it is a wash price wise. Labor wise TDS is a
tremendous over 2 part polysulphide. It will be interesting to see how it holds
up 5, 10, 20+ years from now.
In any event my newly re-caulked
decks should last another 20 + years with the 2 part polysulfide, I hope. One
other big huge benefit of doing this project is that I really know what condition
the decks are in (excellent) so now that project is officially completed.
Harvey, how are you doing finding and
fixing the leaks? On my list sent yesterday I forgot to mention some very fine
or small cracks around the scuppers which allowed a little water to get into
the bulwark cavity, too. Easy
repair. Grind out and fill with
thickened epoxy.
Regards, John Keefe CT37 No.63 ODYSSEA
January 2005
______________________________________________________________________________
Hi
John,
Nice summary. However, you may wish to change the wording
on the paragraph describing teak decks. You state:
"Deck
Composition
I haven't seen numbers, but it appears that
a majority of Tayana's were built with teak decks. Some owners love their teak
decks and others curse the maintenance and water problems they bring. However,
in recent years, boat repair yards are experimenting with composite teak woods
and opting to seal all screw holes and glue the new teak to a sealed deck. This
may provide the best of all advantages, but maybe costly. Fiberglass decks are
not as prone to water damage, but only a few Tayana's were made with glass
decks and may be difficult to find."
NONE of the Tayana's were built with
teak decks. The teak straking was added on top of a very heavily constructed
fiberglass deck. The actual deck consists of a thick outer shell of
fiberglass/resin. It is quite strong. The shell is then turned upside down,
then many hundreds of small pieces of an Asian balsa-like material, placed in
polyester resin. The wood pieces are
positioned as end grain, exactly as with balsa. However, the nature of the wood
used was far less vulnerable to decay and rot than balsa. The space between the
pieces of end-grain were "more or less" filled with additional resin.
Another heavy lay-up of fiberglass and resin is then put down. If all the wood
rotted out, the deck would still be strong enough for any condition you might
encounter. The problem was with what happened next. After the deck is laid on
the hull, the factory then put down teak straking in a bed of something like
Thiokol. They then screwed the deck straking to the outer fiberglass shell.
Bungs were then placed in the cap of the screw hole. The screws were never
intended to be long enough to penetrate the core and inner shell. But a number
of owners, apparently thinking that they were improving on the factory design,
removed a lot of the screws, and inserted longer screws that penetrated through
the inner shell as well. This has the delightful
consequence of providing a nice route for water to enter the cabin!
But it is important to note that it
is incorrect to state that the Tayana 37 has teak decks. Boats such as the Cape
George 36, from Washington State, are gorgeous boats, but they are a problem.
They do have plywood decks with teak on top. When they start to rot, it is a
major disaster.
regards,
______________________________________________________________________________
You had recommended a Fein
Multimaster with the scraper blade to peel back the quilted vinyl hull liner.
Well I finally ordered one and it arrived yesterday. There's almost nothing as
cool as getting a new power tool in the mail...
Anyway, of course I had to test it
out today. It works great! I'm impressed! You can't rush the blade, but it does
a nice job of getting the vinyl off. It leaves a lot of the dried adhesive, but
that can be sanded down a bit before painting or applying new vinyl.
I then tried the 31/8" Segmented
HSS Blade that came with the kit I ordered, and it had no trouble going through
a section of 1/4" FRP tabbing on one of the bulkheads I'm replacing.
Again, you can't rush it, but it did the job with very little dust. I just did
a small section so I don't know how well it will hold up. But this is
definitely a job for the High Speed Steel blade, not the carbon. I also bought
a 4mm caulk removal blade but haven't tried that yet.
Coincidentally, I got the May/June
issue of Good Old Boat in the mail yesterday, and while skimming through it
this morning I noticed a picture of the Fein tool on page 33 being used to cut
through "headliner". Thanks
again for the recommendation!
Chuck Snyder
April 2005
PS. BTW, I ordered from Coastal Tool http://www.coastaltool.com/ because their prices looked better than most
others. Service and shipping were good.
______________________________________________________________________________
The
variation in pricing on the Fein Multimaster is between about $195 (plus
shipping and handling of about $15+) to about $215 (plus sales tax) at our
local Tool Depot. Only buy the variable speed unit, not the cheaper single
speed. They market the variable speed unit in two packages. The simple pack in
a plastic case and a limited number of attachments ($195-215) or the
"Professional Set" in a larger metal case with a bunch of additional
blades. The Pro set is definitely more cost effective, but Tool Depot didn't
have any in stock when I bought my unit. The various blades and accessories are
outrageously expensive. The grouting segmented blade is about $50. A
replacement E-saw cut is about $30. The one thing I have been unhappy with is
the hook-and-loop sanding pad. If you are not very careful using it, you
partially melt down the edges, and the loop sanding disk doesn't hold properly.
Harvey April
2005
______________________________________________________________________________
Harvey,
While you're outfitting your Multimaster,
pick up one of their teak knives. They come in 3, 4 and 5mm widths. It's the
best tool I've found for removing caulk from the deck overlay in tight places.
If you're recaulking the whole deck, a plunge router/laminate trimmer is the
best tool to use in the open areas.
Sue
Canfield Aeolus/T37 #-305 Annapolis, MD April
2005
______________________________________________________________________________
Its time to re-groove my teak deck.
Offhand, it looks like the easiest
method would be to use a small radial saw with a dado blade and simply
'eyeball' the grooves or make up a 'jig' to keep the saw in the present shallow
groove. With teak being so abrasive to cutters I surmise that a 'jigged' plunge
router will need a small fortune in bits/cutters. I need to go 1/8 deeper to
get a full 1/4" deep groove. Any suggestions to make this horrendous job
easier with power tools (and don’t burn them out in the process).
I plan on using "Teak-Decking
Systems" single part silicone. I guess I’m the Guinea Pig on this new one
part silicone.
I HATE gray decks.... anyone know of
a good sealer and UV surface stabilizer? A lot of folks nearby my marina use
Thompson’s Waterseal with mixed results. I’m not planning on sanding, just want
something to hold the color of the soft grain (not the proud grain).
Would appreciate any other
suggestions based on your experience.
Rich Hampel April
2005
______________________________________________________________________________
Rich,
I used just one 1/4" straight carbide
bit in a Porter Cable laminate trimmer to do the entire deck (except the
detailed work next to the trunk cabin) in one day. See photo at:
ftp://ftp.sailnet.com/tayana/Decks_TeakTherapy_SueCanfield/05%20Router%20Guide.jpg
Sue
Canfield Aeolus/T37 #-305 Annapolis, MD April
2005
______________________________________________________________________________
Hi
Rich,
The TDS material is mainly an Oxime rubber
combined with a relatively small amount of silicone. It has excellent adhesive
properties, can be sanded, has a stretch coefficient (?) of somewhere between
20-40%. Follow the directions carefully
about using a spatula to force the material down into the gap. Remove the tape
immediately after that! You MUST get the tape up within less than FIVE MINUTES
of putting the TDS into the groove, or it will form a skin that pulls up the
TDS. It makes it look like a hair wave from the 50's (if you remember that far
back?!). Let it cure overnight before sanding or cutting off excess. The stuff
is excellent. If you run into a problem with it, just cut out a piece, wash the
fresh surface with acetone, and put in some new TDS caulking.
The company also now has had a lot
more experience using it as caulking for deck hardware, and recommends its use
for that as well. The only down side is
price.
I saw it on several boats at the Port
Townsend Wooden Boat Show a few years ago, and started using it when I re-did
my cockpit caulking. Great stuff.
Harvey April
2005
______________________________________________________________________________
I did it just as Sue described in her
article in DIY magazine (2002 Issue #4) and in her posting to the ftp site. I
used up 2 or 3 carbide 1/4" bits in a small laminate trimmer which ran
along a wood batten about 6 feet long by ~1.5" wide with 3/4" long
slots every 2 inches or so (to enable it to bend or curve) which was tacked
into adjacent grooves with thin brads. Worked out great but time consuming as I
was working by myself. Caution: wear ear protection! Also, lots of debris is
thrown about so a good vac is helpful. I had pictures posted to the ftp site at
one point but I don't see them now. They must have been deleted in the computer
change over by Sailnet. Two other helpful things were good knee pads and a 12v
caulking gun which worked out great. Terrific tool if a lot of caulking is
required. In addition, my grooves are ~1/4" deep and I used the Boat Life
2 part polysulfide caulking just because I know it will last for another 20
years. The TDS stuff is used in the roofing industry a lot today and a tube is
about 1/2 the price from local building contractor suppliers just under a
different name. Good reviews of the stuff in the roofing business, too. For a
good article on sealants and caulking check out:
Presently, my teak deck is bare but I want
to put a coating on it, too. However, I'm concerned about using something that
might soften up the seam sealant. I've heard that Cetol may/has/might cause
softening of the sealant although I have used it over 3M (disc.), 1 part
BoatLife in the tube, etc., with no problem except that the Cetol applied over the
sealant takes longer to dry.
Good
luck. It's well worth the effort.
Regards,
John Kalpus April
2005
______________________________________________________________________________
Rich raised a number of important points of
concern, particularly the matter of the limited adhesion life of epoxy with
teak. I went to the West System website, (http://www.westsystem.com/),
and couldn't find any comments on testing of life expectancy of epoxy bonding
to teak.
However, they did have an interesting
article under their section of Marine Projects, entitled "Installing a
teak deck on Zatara". A PDF version is available at:
http://www.westsystem.com/ewmag/20/pdf/Ew20_Teak_deck.pdf
The author describes how they re-installed a teak deck on an older boat. The original teak decks had been removed by
the previous owner. The project is described in detail, including how to secure
each plank in place as the epoxy cures. All screw holes were filled. Sounds
like a truly "fun project" if you feel that you want to do some time
in Hell. But the results are impressive.
The author started with a non-skid deck, and had to steam bend his planks, wedge
them in place, etc.
regards,
______________________________________________________________________________
I’m simply amazed how many times I’ve seen
teak that has been properly epoxied to 'something' always seems to eventually
'go'. Just about any time I examine the 'failure', its never the epoxy and
usually there is a very 'thin' bit of apparently oxidized teak film hanging
onto the epoxy. I know this as I destroyed yet another dorade when I hooked the
mainsheet around a cowl this weekend. Any joint that could come apart did ...
and I can plainly see the ad nauseum ever-present thin layer of teak hanging
onto the epoxy joint.
Anyone who ever saved the teak
sections of their bowsprit will testify to the 'oxidation' at the teak surface.
Rich
Hampel May
2005
______________________________________________________________________________
What is the typical thickness of the teak
decking? I have the impression that it is slightly thicker than 3/8" and
up to about 1/2", based on various holes I have drilled. In a few places
where I can estimate how much had been sanded down in the past, I figure that
previous owner had not taken off much more than 1/16". If so, then the
residual thickness should be good for another 20-30 years.
When I recently cut out a 3"
hole for a hawse pipe, I found that the teak was relatively well adherent to
the underlying deck, but could be easily pried up without damaging the wood.
The bonding material was a black sealant, probably Thiokol. I could easily
scrape it off.
It made me wonder about the
possibility of redoing the teak decking with the same original planks, assuming
I can remove it all without splintering the planking, numbering them all
carefully, sealing all the deck holes, and starting again. But I would then do
it in the way that Swan and others now do it. They lay down the planks in a bed
of epoxy, screw it down until the epoxy cures, and then remove the screws. They
fill the small holes with additional epoxy and a bung (if I understand the
process correctly). This has two major advantages:
1)
No screw holes in the deck and therefore no water intrusion.
2)
The lack of the stainless screws means that there is none of the black staining
due to ferritic corrosion in an anoxic environment (Rich, please correct the
error in this description).
If you want to go still further with
improving the original system, rather than putting in screws to hold the
planking, perhaps a load of lead bricks to maintain pressure until the epoxy
sets. If all the original bung holes were now drilled all the way through the
thickness of the teak planks, you could put in a full thickness bung. This
would also cure the problem of the bungs being so thin that they easily pop out
with time and foot traffic.
Perhaps Sue Canfield might be able to
give us some guidance on this. I find
that the teak decking is rather attractive. The silver gray doesn't bother me
at all, but it is clearly a matter of personal taste. I also installed a saltwater washdown pump
with the intention of frequent washing of the decks with clean salt water. In
San Diego we have the additional problem that Shelter Island is directly across
from the Coronado Island Naval Air Station, and under the flight path from our
local major airport. We get a lot of oily smoky residue that seeps into the
wood. Washing the decks with fresh water produces a flow of black soot, but
some of it clearly soaks into the wood itself. I wonder about a finish that
might serve to seal the wood and shed that crud.
regards,
______________________________________________________________________________
Harvey:
When we removed our teak decks to do our
recore job, I had also planned to carefully mark the teak planks and reinstall
them with epoxy on the new deck. Then reality met theory. Our reality was that
about a third of the teak planks adhered to the old deck so tenaciously that it
was virtually impossible to remove them without breakage. Moreover, those
planks that did come up in one piece were coated with either (1) a thick layer
of gooey uncured Thiokol or (2) a thick layer of hardened cured Thiokol. After
seeing this course of events, I quickly realized that my original plan was going
to be a real nightmare; I quickly warmed up to the idea of fiberglass decks and
have never looked back. For a nonskid finish, we used Dynel for the last layer
of lay-up. It works pretty well, but not nearly as well as teak. Hope this
helps your decision process. Good luck!!!
Dayton
Eckerson T-37 MISTRESS (#215) May
2005
______________________________________________________________________________
Another way to go…
A power boater in Ventura working on an old
but very nice 50-footer glassed over his teak decks. He sanded the deck flat
made sure the screws were secure and installed the glass, painted the deck then
painted the nonskid sections, it still looks factory new and no leaks after 4
years... I can get all the information on how to if anybody is interested and a
picture or two.
Bill McMullen May
2005
______________________________________________________________________________
Much as it pains me to entertain the
notion, I begin to wonder about the prospect of removing vs. repairing my teak
decks. I really love them, and they seem in fair condition - but the question I
ask myself is what are the determinants of such a decision.
From my point of view, I think that
teak decks are lovely and provide excellent footing. The problem is that the
previous owner really scrubbed them mercilessly, and about half the bungs are
missing. I also can't decide which of the many exposed screws (about 120
exposed heads) might be factory originals, and which the previous owner (PO) put
in. Some of them are obviously those of
the PO, as they actually stick down into the cabin overhead in a many places.
(Duh!) Many of the others are simple
slotted screws with flat heads. This is a bit puzzling to me, as when I had to
remove a plug of decking for my aft radar tower, it was a part of the deck that
had not been as badly scraped, and the screw was a small slotted screw but with
an oval head. Our boat is a 1977 (hull
#84) and I wonder if anyone else with this vintage boat knows which type of
screw was used on the decking?
A critical issue, obviously, is the
question as to how much teak is left. I estimate that in most places, it is
only between 1/4" to 3/8" If I try to restore the original
appearance, I obviously need to rout and counterbore for new bungs. The decking
itself is mostly secured to the underlying deck, except for two spots where the
screws came loose. But I seriously doubt that the original polysulfide sealant
is still very well bonded to the substrate. One question is just how thick a
board has to be to accommodate a new flat head and sufficient bung to be able
to hold the board securely, and still permit sanding off the bung enough to
provide a useful cover for the screw?
I also wonder about being able to
make clean cut countersink holes in old abused teak. My concern is that even a
really good countersink may grab the fibers of tired wood and cause problems.
I obviously don't relish the notion
of removing and replacing some estimated 1,200 screws, filling each of the
holes with laminating epoxy, redrilling and counterboring, etc. But the idea of
removing the teak decks also does not appeal to me.
regards,
______________________________________________________________________________
Harvey,
With 120 exposed screw heads, I'd be
surprised if water isn't getting into the deck core and/or your boat's
interior. You should at a minimum remove the exposed fasteners, inject epoxy,
counterbore, rebung, etc. What about the caulking in the seams? Are there
cracks visible between the caulking and the sides of the seams? If you send me
some digital photos of the overlay, I can offer more informed advice.
If significant portions of the deck core are
wet and there are various leaks to the interior that have left water stains on
the inside of the hull, lifted the finish on and/or discolored the joinery
belowdecks, it would be best to remove the teak overlay as well as the upper
layer of the deck laminate, and excise the deteriorated deck material. After
laying in new core and relaminating, you can choose to apply a non-skid paint
coating, external non-skid material (e.g., Treadmaster), or a new teak overlay
(e.g., Teak Decking Systems).
Removing the teak overlay and recoring the
deck molding is an expensive job, but recoring a T-37 from the inside would be
even more costly. How long you expect to own your boat and how do you plan to
use it?
Sue
Canfield Aeolus T37 #-305
Annapolis, MD July 2005
______________________________________________________________________________
Harvey:
I feel your pain. Our Hull is #118. We have
a bit more wood than you describe but some of the bungs are out also. The screw
heads on our boat have Philips head screws and are stainless. The caulk on our
deck is in pretty good shape and thankfully our cockpit is covered with a full
enclosure so the deck there looks very good. I have put bungs in that were only
3/16" deep with Resorcinol glue and they are still there after 10 years. I
used brad point drills and used a cheap drill press that I could stand on so
there was no movement when I drilled the hole. Doing it this way I could also
set the depth of the hole. Use new drills with every 20 or so holes and the
edges will stay crisp and clean. Good luck
Nick DeRocher S/V Paul Martin T 37 Hull#118 July 2005
______________________________________________________________________________
Hi
Harvey,
Ouch! Rebunging teak decks. Been there,
done that! It took me four years to do it working just in the cooler months.
And hundreds of hours. Backpain will be
your primary scheduling concern. And that was only rebunging. Didn't need any
deck repairs.
Sue has identified the real problem.
How are the deck seams? My seams were in good shape, adhering nicely to the
teak on either side. And the boards never got the slightest bit loose when all
the screws were removed. But the job was doubled by air bubbles in the
caulking. It took almost as long as the sanding/drilling/rebunging to cut out
the hollow sections and tape/recaulk. I must have had 700 individual caulking
repairs. Your boat may or may not have
this problem. I only ended up doing a complete recaulking of about 5 linear
feet of deck seams. Otherwise, all the repairs were 1 to 2 inches in length. I
learned early on that if the original deck caulking is adhering well, leave it
alone!
I have been working on a Word
document about the project. It concentrates primarily on the tools needed. That
was the hardest part. I floundered for over a year before I figured out what
and where to order. I first tried drilling holes for bungs with the stuff from
my local hardware store. Disaster! Finally learned about Jamestown Distributors
and their line of professional taper point drill bits, cutters and
countersinks, and stop collars. Even the right bungs are important. If the
bungs don't have a chamfered end, you can't start them in the new hole without
doing damage (hint - DO NOT buy the bungs from West Marine (Sea Dog?)). Even
the right sandpaper can make a tremendous difference in time (either use 3M
Gold or double the time estimate for the job!). The exact screws needed are
detailed as well as recommended brands of deck seam caulking, the proper
masking tape - everything. Even product
order codes are listed...
(Update
2005: see http://tognews.com/ftpfiles/ and look for
the article on refinishing teak decks)
Wayne V-42 C/C
RESTLESS July
2005
______________________________________________________________________________
The good news is that I am ignorant
of the true state of the core. When
ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise). However, when I recently cut out a
piece of deck for the new anchor hawse pipe, the core was bone dry. When I cut
a piece out for the washdown pump several feet away), it was slightly
discolored, but also dry. Perhaps this reflects the part of the world in which
we live. I also wonder if the previous owner might have done some terribly
sensible thing, such as injecting a squirt of epoxy in every hole before he put
in a new screw. In those cases where he used a screw that was so long that it
actually penetrated the inner shell of the fiberglass deck sandwich, there is
no evident water damage, except in the instance of two or three spots, and that
is uncertain.
The caulking between the strakings
was shot, hence I removed all the old caulking and about to re-caulk with Teak
Decking Systems Oxime rubber-silicone mix. I used this on the cockpit teak, and
am delighted with the results.
At this point, I suspect that the
projects on this boat will kill me, so I assume that I am likely to own this
boat for the rest of my life.
regards,
______________________________________________________________________________
Harvey,
Since you're already recaulking the
overlay, it just makes sense to refasten it as well. The latter is far less of a
chore than the former. With the right tools, two people should be able to knock
out the job in two or three days. Try a test section first to see what sort of
problems, if any, you're likely to encounter.
Sue
Canfield July 2005
(See Sue’s detailed article on teak deck refinishing at http://tognews.com/ftpfiles/Decks_TeakTherapy_SueCanfield/ )
______________________________________________________________________________
I put down the TDS caulking material
in the cockpit several months ago, and have been very pleased with the results.
There are a couple of critical steps that you can't circumvent.
1) You must clean out the old caulking, then wash the seams with acetone.
2)
Tape each side of the seam carefully.
3)
Squeeze in an excess of material, then within a minute or two, force it in with
a small wooden spatula, leaving a slight hump.
4)
IMMEDIATELY after you smooth it with the spatula, remove that piece of tape. We
initially waited too long, and the TDS immediately starts to form a skin. At
that point, when you lift the tape, it also pulls up the surface skin of
caulking, causing a slight hollow in the seam and a curlicue wave above it.
Once we learned the trick of removing the tape immediately, it went well (OK,
so it wasn't a "trick" - had I read the instructions carefully, I
would have realized that they tell you to do it that way.). I also found that
if I let it almost completely cure overnight, and removed the tape very
carefully the next day, it worked out OK. But it took a lot longer and the tape
often tore at the seam, requiring teasing it out with a tweezers.
5)
Curing typically starts within several minutes and you can walk on it the next
day. I waited several days before starting to sand the caulking. It did not
shrink or sink into the seams, but actually protruded slightly.
I had planned to put in a breaker
strip in the bottom, but the seams were so uneven in width, that I finally gave
up on trying to put in a breaker strip. I asked the people at TDS about this
and they sort of hedged their response. I was left with the impression that
while it might be helpful, it wasn't all that essential. The reason seems to be
that TDS has really high adhesion, combined with a sustained 20-40% elasticity
over a 20 year period (estimated). Most other caulking compounds lose their
elasticity rapidly and that results in breaking the bond to the side walls of
the seam.
I subsequently sanded down the
caulking and the surrounding teak straking (very gently) and the results are
quite nice. It still is 28-year-old teak straking, but the final result is much
better than before.
After you open a tube of TDS, you can
cover the tip with Saran wrap, and it will still be good for weeks (to
months?). It initially has a low viscosity, so it flows into the seams very
easily. The only drawback to TDS is that
it can be pretty expensive, varying from $12-$20 per tube, depending upon where
you buy it, and it is a mess when it gets on your hands and hair.
I saw a few boats at the Port
Townsend Wooden Boat Show that had used it on their decks, and was really
impressed at how well it looked. But
smoothing it with a spatula and forcing it down into the groove, followed by
immediately removing the tape, is absolutely critical.
As for the tenacity of the stuff, I
had occasion to test it in an unusual way. The hatch cover over the propane
locker is teak straking on plywood. The plywood is held in place with screws
from below. Over the years, the plywood had gotten damp and rotted out. It may
not have actually been marine plywood. I removed the screws from below, and
pulled all the plywood from below. The teak straking kept all the pieces in
exact relationship while I replaced the rotted plywood exterior A-CX plywood
that I first saturated with West Epoxy. When I finished the job, the seams of
TDS were all still intact.
Adding additional caulking is
supposed to be easy. Rough the surface with a bit of 80-grit sandpaper, rinse
with acetone, and put in the caulking. They say that the two streams will
tightly bond immediately. This also
makes repairs easier.
regards,
______________________________________________________________________________
Hi
Harvey,
Every Tayana older than 12 to 15 years old
has water under the decks somewhere. Or in the cabin sides. Run a moisture
meter over the cabin sides and you will see what I mean. Somewhere, it will be
saturated. Luckily, we have overbuilt boats to start with so it is simply a
matter of vacuuming out the excess water and then stopping the ingress of
future water. Sometimes, I think surveyors tend to create undo concern about
water under the decks and this often leads to dramatic reductions in price.
Water is going to be found somewhere on older boats. A good surveyor can determine whether it is a
serious problem requiring immediate attention or it is a minor problem
requiring little more than monitoring.
Most of the time, the new owner doesn't even bother to make the
expensive fix. If an area is not soft to touch or walk on and it is not weeping
into the cabin, then it is not a serious problem and is just a natural
condition of boat "aging". As I told one boater when he opined about
this condition, "If water under the deck concerns you, triple the money
you have set aside to buy a boat and buy a new one! Just don't keep it over ten
years..."
______________________________________________________________________________
Hi Harvey,
Yes, two countersinks for drilling bung holes should do it. It's hard to beat quality tools! Keep them clean when they load up with teak residue. Use two countersinks on a single drill bit. Even when tightening the two Allen screws on one countersink, it may still slip up the drill bit shaft. With your spare on the bit, no more slipping (and going through the inside cabin ceiling) plus its easy to locate your spare...
I actually tried a few #10 screws and
7/16ths inch bungs prior to settling on the #8 screws and 3/8ths inch bungs
originally installed at the factory.
Individually, they looked terrible. You can actually use a 3/8th-inch
hole with a number 10 screw. It is a
tight fit but it will clear. If you have some 7/16ths inch bung holes, it is
best to use just the 7/16ths inch bungs. Put a whole row in together and it
won't look bad.
Hint: to make bungs
"disappear", sand them down with a sanding block. Just a swish, swish (1/2 second) per bung.
When you stand back, a few feet, they will be "gone".
______________________________________________________________________________
Harvey,
Good luck with you deck project. I'm
glad I did mine. I used the router routine and made all the seams 1/4"
wide and deep. I used the Boat Life 2 part seam sealant and it took about 14 or
15 quarts to do the job. It was no problem putting in 1/4" bond breaker. I
definitely recommend the bond breaker if using the 2 part stuff. I'm happy with
the results although it's not perfection... it is definitely good enough. Nice
tight seams. The 2 part stuff does shrink a little as it cures over time and
some of my level seams are now slightly depressed. If I had to do it all over
again I believe I would use the silicone caulk like TDS as it is far easier to
use and there is no mixing and filling of caulking tubes, etc. I have heard
nothing but good things about that type of seam sealant.
I replaced all the screws and bungs
and treated the holes with CPES (3 times). I used a counterbore with a stop
collar to make the screw holes slightly deeper. When installing the new screws
I put a drop of epoxy into the hole then screwed in the new ss slotted
3/4" flat head sheet metal screw. Immediately I coated a teak bung and
tapped it home with a small hammer. I used the Smith's Lay-up and Laminating
epoxy as it has a long pot life and the stuff bonds exceptionally well to teak. One thing I ran
into was that there were some spots that had 2 bungs (and sometimes 3) right
next to each other with just one screw under one of them. In those cases I used
a 3/4" Forstner bit to make a flat bottom hole for a 3/4" teak bung
because in trying to remove both original bungs I messed up the holes. When the
deck was finished it all tended to blend together. I did the whole job by
myself under a shrink wrap cover designed so I could work under it. It is a big
job for one person but I just took my time and eventually it was done. The
pictures on the ftp site show some of the project.
Since the decks were maintained by
the three, past owners, I had no problem with a wet core, etc. All the screws
came out dry and the seams were dry as well after I routed out the original
sealant. In fact, the teak was never sanded much in the past so I had nearly
all the original thickness of the wood. After the bungs were in and the epoxy
cured I trimmed them with a chisel and hammer and lightly sanded them smooth
with a dual action sander. I then taped
and filled the seams with the 2-part seam sealant. Once cured I smoothed out
the seams using the dual action sander (very lightly and at low rpm's) to
finish it all off. Now I have only minimal maintenance and wow do they look
good! Teak decks just give my CT-37 that real nautical flavor I find so
appealing. It was well worth the time and effort.
Finally, all the original screws were
SS flat head, slotted, 1" long wood screws (1977 CT-37, hull 63) so I used
3/4 long screws since I deepened the holes a bit.
John
Keefe July
2005
______________________________________________________________________________
Wow! That Fein Multimaster is one great
tool. I cleaned out the rest of the seams, exposed fresh wood along the
sidewalls, and deepened and widened the seams very easily. It was almost fun.
(Yeah, sure!) Tomorrow morning I will wash with acetone and tape. If time
allows I may even be able to start caulking.
I measured the thickness of the
straking in a number of places, by excavating in the seam down to the
underlying deck. The thickness of the straking varied from about 0.375"
(3/8") to 0.533" (slightly > 1/2" or 13 mm), with typical
values of about 0.41"(approximately 7/16"). If I use #8 x 3/4"
flat heads, will I have enough teak straking to hold the wood securely in place
and still be able stuff in a bung?
I DO NOT intend to lift off the
straking in order to put down fresh adhesive. I am taking Rich's advice and
just doing my best to seal all the boards to prevent water from reaching the
underlying fiberglass deck.
OK, Great Gurus. Am I on a suicide
course with my teak decks, or can I manage to get this to look reasonably
decent?
regards,
______________________________________________________________________________
I have almost completed the whole (caulking)
job (except for a few spots that need attention), and would modify my
description.
Almost all the caulking had pulled away on
one side or the other of the seams. I initially removed the old caulking by
using a utility knife to separate the remaining adherent caulking from the
seam. I then pulled out the old caulking with sharpened bent screwdriver sized
to fit into the grooves. If I had owned the Fein at the time I did the initial
work, it would have gone much faster and easier.
The things that I would now add would be
that I found that it is very helpful to use a Fein Multimaster to clear out the
old caulking. Then, using the flat grouting blade (medium grit) on the Fein, I
would sand down the side walls of the seam, and using the same tool, deepen the
groove where it seems needed. This gets rid of any last bits of the old
caulking, and exposes fresh wood. It goes very quickly with the Fein. I had
previously been doing this with a bent sharpened screwdriver and found it a
slow and laborious process, and missed a lot of spots with old caulking.
Although only time will show if this is valid, I think that the Fein grouting
blade may have been the most important tool I used in this whole clean n' ream
operation.
I
would then wash liberally with acetone.
Tape
the seams.
I
then used a squeeze bottle filled with Smith's CPES (clear penetrating epoxy
solution), liberally poured it into the seams and flooded the sidewalls of the seam.
This only takes about half an hour to do all the seams on the boat using the
squeeze bottle with a long "straw"-like spout with a narrow tip. On a
T-37 it only required a total of about 1.5 pints of CPES for all the decking.
Now
caulk with the TDS, forcing material into the seam and expelling any air
bubbles.
Force
the material into the seam with a wooden "spatula" (I used those
wooden paint stirrers that they give away freely at paint stores and Home
Depot). Cut out a small groove in the tip of the wooden spatula to allow the
caulking to form a slight hump.
Immediately
remove the tape before the caulking forms a skin. That means you have to get
the tape off in less than 2-4 minutes after you push in the caulking.
Let
it cure overnight.
Spray
with water (which helps it cure, but I would wait a few hours to permit initial
curing.)
Wait
a few days and then trim the excess using a single edged razor blade.
The
TDS can then be lightly sanded and left a bit 'proud' to provide better footing
on the deck.
I
have not sanded the deck, other than in a few very rough spots, and plan to
replace the bungs and limit my sanding to that immediate area.
When the TDS cured, I then used a spray
bottle of either Lysol Mildew remover or Zep Mildew Remover, on all the teak
decking. Leave it on for only 2-3 minutes, and flush off with copious amounts
of water. This really cleans off the mildew and spores, and leaves the deck
relatively pale. Makes the new caulking look even better!
regards,
______________________________________________________________________________
Fein makes two versions of that tool (Fein
Multimaster) - one with a fixed speed and the second with a variable speed.
I would only go for the variable speed. It's far more adaptable.
They make several different widths of
caulking remover. I think they are 3, 4 and 6 mm in width. I don't have that
blade, as I had already done all the work on the major removal with a utility
knife and a bent screwdriver. The grouting blade I referred to is a standard
component of the Fein Multimaster kit. I only started to use by chance because
that happened to be on the tool. I was amazed to find that it was the ideal
tool for cleaning out the seams, and because it also has abrasive on the edge,
it worked extremely well in deepening the seam. Professionals working on
caulking seams use a circular saw for deepening and cleaning out the caulking
seams. If that ever gets away from you, it can really damage your decking,
cutting novel seams, hard to follow gentle curves, etc. The Fein grouting blade
has none of those problems. It's very easy to control the direction and depth.
Unlike a circular saw, it doesn't
"walk
away" from you and stays in the groove.
The tool, with a few simple blades and
sturdy plastic case, costs about $200. I put off buying it for years because of
the price, until I had a chance to actually try it once. I immediately rushed
out to buy it!
regards,
__________________________________________________________________________________
