Re: the positioning of a fuel pump in line
between the tank and filter. I don't think this is a good idea.
Many of the pumps out there will not deal with the crud that may come out
of a tank. This crud could clog up a fuel pump and stop it from operating
prior to the fuel reaching the filter. Even though electric fuel pumps
were primarily made to push fuel rather than suction it. It is still wiser
in this set-up to put your pump after the filter. This will ensure the
fuel to the pump is clear. The better setup would have two rather large
Racors with a valve to switch from one to the other if one gets clogged.
Another idea would be to put a pump bulb between the tank and filter and
this would let you purge the system when needed. Ala no electric pump,
wiring, or attendant cost or reliance on yet another electric device that may
only be used to prime fuel anyway. The
pump on the engine is a good and proven desin and its not a bad idea to carry a
spare pump or kit for this item. I would
spend the extra money on a large filter and keep my tank and fuel clean.
I pump the bottom of my tank with a
hand pump every spring to rid it of any sediment or water and from time to time
pump the tank out through a filter and into a drum then clean the tank bottom
by hand and then filter the fuel as i pump it back into the tank. I've
had great success with this system and it's not too hard to maintain.
Bob S/V Bright Star March
2001
________________________________________________________________________
One detail to work out, which may have been
mentioned, is the return from the engine high pressure pump. Which tank(s) will
it go to and will one tank be drained and returned to another etc...
Recirc pump. Sarah, a T-37 in the slip
next to us, does the recirc routine with their tank. Rough days they turn on
the pump and filter the tank as it is churned up. They use a gear pump for
recirculation with a Raycor 500 at the suction. The gears do not become gumed
by diesel as a diaphragm of impeller would. http://www.reversopumps.com/ has
gear pumps which are marketed toward the diesel market. The diaphragm version of this pump is sold by
west marine in the catalog.
Joe Sprouse Sojourn February
2002
________________________________________________________________________
Rich
& al,
I am getting ready to redo the fuel system on
Traveler. I would like to have a recirculation system and a day tank that will
provide a gravity feed to the engine, but would also like to keep the system as
simple as possible and use the parts on hand as much possible. My initial plan is to use my Racor 500 on the
suction side of a transfer pump (probably from Bosch) for the recirculation
system. I intend to draw the fuel from the bottom of the tank. I have a smaller
Racor that I plan to use between the day tank and the engine. I already have it
and this sounds like the best place to use it.
Would this arrangement be worth the
trouble or should I go with the sort of system you describe below?
There are a lot more details such as
transferring fuel from the main tank to the day tank and being able to switch
between the two and I'm currently scheming on them. I would appreciate any
thoughts fro m you or the rest of the list on this.
Coleman Blake Traveler February
2002
________________________________________________________________________
I installed
a separate onboard recirculation (polishing) system: Walbro 12v transfer pump +
10µM (98%) polypropylene depth media filter (Osmonics Hytrex) in a
polypropylene filter housing in a pressure mode (not typical poor performing
vacuum mode) filter system. I have an iron tank which was severely
contaminated with rust and organic particulate.
I currently now run the outlet dip tube at the VERY bottom of the tank
to ensure particulate and free water removal.
The present pressure filtration system emulsifies (bad) any free water
and the next future step/addition is a simple **empty** filter housing with a
clear plastic bowl and a drain cock preceding the pump - this should trap most
of any free water. All of this is mounted nearby the bow tank.
Once you get
inside any tank and do a mechanical cleaning (scrubbing, sanitization of
microorganisms, etc.) any recirculation filter system will keep the particulate
well under control, even in a large seaway wherein the fuel is severely
'sloshing' around. The pump is wired
into a vacant circuit breaker on the main panel, turned on anytime in a seaway
and the engine is running. The filter
change out is based on increasing pressure differential (via a gauge); once the tank is mechanically cleaned
you probably won’t see any pressure change for a LONG time when using an
onboard recirculation / polishing system.
The principal is that a 10µM (or larger) filter will have a % reduction
of particulate less than the 10µM rating and will essentially leave the
residual particle levels in the tank to less than 1µM after turning the tank
over several times; using a high flow rate filter the tank will 'turnover'
faster with less amperage draw on the pump. I've checked a correlation to the
residual particle levels by optical density measurement methods and can
validate the less than a 1µM residual
claim. If you use the common garden
variety of filters - Gulf Coast, etc. you will have to use a 1 or 2µM filter
and suffer vastly reduced flow; personally I'd stay away from those filters
advertised and recommended on the "trawler world" and other bulletin
boards, etc. Obviously with such clean
fuel in the tank, my Racors just simply sit there with no challenge on them. I
run a standard 2µM preceding the lift pump of a Yanmar 3QM30.
About 50% of
what I do professionally involves critical micro-filtration and my 'slant' on
the filters typically used on boats is "snake oil" and 75-year old
technology. I don’t use biocide because
I always drain (suck) any water from the tank, as my dip tube is at the very
bottom. I also seal the tank vent from
atmosphere when storing the boat over winter, etc. to prevent condensation on
the tank walls. After I install the
water 'knock-out' pot, the next project will be to install a 3-4 gallon day
tank (super clean fuel storage) so that if everything fuel related fails,
including the lift pump, I will be able to operate for a short time.
Rich
Hampel wrote: February
2002
________________________________________________________________________
I'd disagree with putting any fine
particulate retention filter on the suction side of a transfer pump. Simply use
a coarse screen (in accordance with the pump specs. + many transfer pumps
already have an integral screen already installed). Any filter run in
vacuum/suction service will have a **magnitude less** service life than a
filter in pressure service. A pressure system in which the filters are
running on positive pressure is always vastly better in retention efficiency
and service life than a vacuum system.
I'd also fill the day tank with a filter
and would not have any filter between the day tank and the engine pump (other
than the required secondary 2µM filter.... and that would be a redundant 'last
chance' filter with a 2µM somewhere upstream).
My perception of a proper day tank would be a few gallons storage with a
the input and outlet on the top of the tank (storage only)... thus if any
component of the pump system fail all you'd have to do is open a parallel cock
at the bottom of the tank, open a vent cock and simply drain the already
filtered day tank to the injector pump – nothing mechanically moving.... at
least if the injector pump was still operating you could run for several hours
in an emergency. It would possibly require a 'momentary' air bleed on a
Yanmar to get it started (of course I'd have a petcock mounted so that I
wouldn’t have to screw around with wrenches in bleeding the air) although my
3QM30 will take a few slugs of air and still start - not sure about a 4-107
Perk that requires a high rate of recirc fuel.
A few electronic differential pressure switches mounted in the system
would all that would be need to continuously monitor the *P across all the
filters and primary pump(s).
Rich Hampel February 2002
________________________________________________________________________
Sid, I had a problem with 100 gals. of contaminated fuel. I purchased a portable diesel 12 volt pump from a fuel oil company. I removed the manhole cover on my V-berth tank, inserted the pump hard suction wand into the low detent and put the nozzle (like a gas station nozzle) back into the manhole and ran the pump 3 times for about 1/2 hour each. The pump has a 35 gal. a minute pumping rate, and has a in line filter cartridge. I used a 10 micron filter and in less than 2 hours had nice clean fuel. (I had also shocked the fuel with fuel stabilizer and bio-guard first) The pump was about $230. and can be used as a emergency transfer pump as well as a annual portable fuel conditioning pump.
Chuck "Sirena" February
2002
________________________________________________________________________
No.... the cooties are already in the
fuel.... and they use the iron as a nutrient source. Best way to keep them under
control is a separate recirculation filter @ 5-10µM.
Rich Hampel May
2002
________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cleaning fuel
tanks
You can clean it out by hand then scrub all
the internals with a long handled bronze wire brush. The very best method
however is to remove/dispose of all the oil, mechanically remove the 'crud' as
best you can, then use high pressure steam to blast the 'crud' and particulate
off the walls to the bottom, etc. Then
*polish* the new fuel in the partly cleaned tankage to remove any residual
particulate.
Polishing is recirculation of the fuel from
the tank back to the tank, typically through a 12-volt transfer pump, then
through a 10µM or 15µM Filter, thence back to the tank. The relatively high value of µM retention
filter will allow a more open flow from the pump due to less internal
resistance (differential pressure) which will enable relatively high flows of
recirculating oil through the system and the filter. The recirculation total
volume would be in the magnitude of 1000 gallons total filtered, although you
would only have 50 gallons in the tank.
Since, for example, the 10µM filter
typically has a % removal in LOWER retention (i.e. 20% removal a 2µM, 5% at 0,5µM etc.) at each
pass through the recirculation system you will get a statistical removal of
very small particulate. Consider that if
you recirculate the oil 25 or 50 times, then the statistical reduction comes close
to 100% of ALL particles, including submicronic particles (including bacteria).
Such 10µM or 15µM filters are quite inexpensive - in the range of USD $8.00 for
a 2.75" diameter X 10" length filter. The transfer pump that I use is
a Walbro 12 volt Fuel Transfer pump from www.belgoes.com
(no longer a good link – try http://www.kaydonfiltration.com/
)..... they also sell filters; but, not GOOD filters.
Most broad-based marine services usually
have polishing systems mounted on a cart and can do this service dockside....
but they charge a humongous amount of money to do so and usually don’t leave
the recirculation system on long enough to get down in to the truly
"removal of essentially all particulate" range. You can make such an 'onboard'
recirculation system yourself and every
time you take on new fuel or if the sea conditions are rough ..... simply turn
on the onboard recirculation system to keep the fuel clean. My system sits in one of the bins just aft of
the fuel tank and is mounted on one of the mini-bulkheads.
I guess what I'm saying here is that there
are professional services that will clean your tank for you and they are quite
good. However you can build (probably
for less than a single professional dockside polishing) for yourself your own
system, and that system can become a permanently mounted on-board process
system to prevent FUTURE trouble. There
are several websites devoted to fuel polishing (trawlers, etc.) that you can do
a web search for info, but from my professional purification background...
those websites are selling snake oil. The techniques therein posted are OK but
the equipment and most of the products that they pander are worse than
inferior.
Glad to hear that you had no rust inside the
bottom of the tank. Consider taking a
small mirror on a long handle and go in through the limber holes that drain
UNDER the external surfaces of the bottom of the tank and inspect the underside
of the tank.... as that's where most of the corrosion and rust is usually
found.
Rich Hampel September 2002
________________________________________________________________________
Check out "Gas Boy " portable
transfer pumps at their web site: www.gasboy.com/
I purchased their 600 series pump (comes
either 12 or 24 VDC) and just stuck it in the tank manhole. It's rated for 20 GPM, so I let it run for
about 30 minutes and did it 3 times, so I figured I polished my fuel pretty
well. It can also be used as an
emergency onboard fuel pump for other vessels either giving some fuel or
taking on fuel. Cost was about $235 and it comes with a canister filter.
Cheap, quick, and best of all, it does a great job.
Chuck
"Sirena" September 2002
________________________________________________________________________
For those of
you with Perkins 4-108 diesels, what size micron, final fuel filter do you
use? 10, 5, 2, or what? I currently use 10-micron but am considering
changing to 2-micron.
Doug Coleman September 2002
________________________________________________________________________
The complicated answer is: Industry convention is that prefiltration
stages are 5 times as large in retention than the following stage filter. The final stage filtration should be 1/5th
(SMALLER) of the diameter of the most critical orifice (or equivalent) in the
engine. "One fifth" is historically chosen because particles tend to
'clump' together and 'bridge' .... so that its probable that 2µM particles will
block a 10µM orifice (or equivalent).
My Yanmar uses a 2µM as its integral final
stage. I prefilter to 2µM so that I never challenge the engine's integral
filter with debris. Filter systems should
be sized so that ALL filters (pre and final) fail simultaneously - for economy
purposes and so that you are not replacing 'uncompleted' filters. The surface
area (larger is better) that you choose is just as important as the 'micron
rating' ..... although a dirty filter is more efficient than a new filter.
The resinated paper filters commonly used
on boats are typically 90-95% efficient in removal at the advertised size
rating, translating in 'absolute' terms:.... a paper 2 micrometer filter probably
approaches a 10 or 15 micrometer 'Absolute' rating.
IMPORTANT ..... Be very careful with
manufacturer's "micron size" ratings..... as they are 'arbitrary'
ratings assigned by the filter manufacturer and bear NO relationship to what is
the actual retention !!!!! .... as they NEVER state the removal efficiency at
the 'size rating' which can be anywhere from 50 to 97%. Stick with the leading 'brand names' (Racor,
Fram, Purolator, etc.) and don’t buy CHEAP.
Rich Hampel September 2002
________________________________________________________________________
Ray & al,
I don't know how I'm going to clean my
fuel tank except that it's going to be a mess. I have a simple fuel filter with an 80-mesh
filter from McMaster-Carr. I'm going to use this and my fuel pump (a KR12-40
from Belgoes - it's their upgraded replacement for the Walbro 68XX series.) to
try to get as much of the gunk off the bottom of the tank. I'm going to insert
a length of tubing through the dipstick hole and try my luck. The main goal of
this operation is to inspect the fuel as it goes through the filter globe and
remove enough water and crud so that the fuel won't clog the yard's heaters. If
this is the case, they will pump it out for free.
Once the tank is empty I'll probably
use some version of the Long Armstrong Method to swab down the inside of the
tank.
I'm thinking of replacing the dipstick
with a length of tubing with a removable cap. The hydraulic lines from the auto
parts store look sturdy enough. When the vacuum gauge on the Racor indicates
that the filter is clogging up, I'll switch the pump inlet to the dipstick, go
after the stuff in the bottom of the tank and then replace the filter. Someone suggested that I have a few inches
cut from the bottom of the tank so that it wouldn't rest in bilge water and
coating the tank (it's aluminum and fairly new) with coal tar epoxy. Does
anyone have any thoughts on this?
Coleman Blake Traveler T-37 # 328 November 2002
________________________________________________________________________
Hi Coleman,
Cleaning the tanks is on my list this
winter too. I was wondering how you are going about it? A lot of paper towels
and long arms or what? My arms aren't long enough to reach around the baffles
so I'm trying to engineer a way to do it. I ran down the fuel on purpose this
summer and will pump the rest out into cans. Then I'll see how far my arms
reach once the inspection port is off.
Any ideas?
Also, about the recirculation pump. I like
the idea and will probably put one in too but I was advised by a friend who is
a very knowledgeable mechanical engineer and world cruiser that I should not
waste my money because the engine pumps much more fuel than it uses and
therefore polishes the fuel just by running the engine. If you have
refrigeration and are living aboard cruising it my not be necessary to install
a separate polishing system since you will be using the engine many hours
a day. On my friends 80-HP Westerbeke, he says he pumps 10 gallons for every
gallon burned at cruising speed. He feels this is sufficient to polish the
fuel. Combine that with a gauge for the Racor filter and even if your filter
gets a little dirty, you know when to change them by the flow meter. If I had
dual Racor filters so I could A/B them to clean one off line, like he
does, I too would feel comfortable with not having a polishing
system. The point I find interesting is how much fuel goes through the fuel
return line back to the tank.
Ray Slaninka Red Bank, NJ November 2002
________________________________________________________________________
Frank,
Part of the grit may be the remains
of deceased cooties. Making sure only clean fuel goes into the tank is a
necessary first step in making sure only clean fuel goes into the engine.
We also have a large Baja filter and all the fuel that goes into Traveler
will go through it first. West Marine has come up with new design that improves
on the Baja. It was one of Practical Sailor's picks of the year. If we didn't
already have the Baja I'd get one.
I'm installing a recirculation/polishing
system on Traveler. It only requires one valve and a little extra plumbing. I
hope to finish the job this weekend and I'll let the list know how it works. This
system will allow me to remove the water that will inevitably get into the tank
(water always wins) as well as the corrosion products and cooties that develop
as a result. As part of this operation,
I'm going to clean the tank so we'll get a fresh start.
Coleman Blake Traveler T-37 #328 November 2002
________________________________________________________________________
Joe,
If the gunk in the bottom of the tank is "gritty", I would be surprised if it was related to algae or bacteria growth. Gritty, granular stuff is usually corrosion products from your tank or the one at the marina or sand that gets carried in with the fuel. The only way to reduce these types of things (you can not ever really eliminate them) is to reduce water in the fuel and filter the fuel going into the tank (I would use a big Baja filter funnel, especially if the marina does not adequately filter their fuel at the pump). I always ask when the spin-on filter on the pump was last changed. I have not had to clean the tanks on Magic Dragon yet, only having owned it for a year. I will probably sample the tanks this winter to decide if I need to clean them. Our last boat had about 1/4" of oily black residue on the bottom of the aluminum tank. I left it there, because it would have been a big PITA to remove and the Racor filter did a good job of removing it slowly. I never had a problem with filters plugging. This was with 20 years of weekend and seasonal use only. Frank Timmons V-42 "Magic Dragon" Deltaville, VA November 2002
________________________________________________________________________
Rich,
I posted your very helpful drawing of
your double fuel filtration and polishing system on the Tayana ftp site. It can
be viewed at
ftp://tognews.com/Rich_Hampel's_Fuel_Filter_System/
. I'm sure that others will find it as
helpful and informative as I did.
regards, Harvey September 2002
________________________________________________________________________
I especially
refer to the 'toilet paper' filters, paper napkins and "Bounty'
rolls. Toilet paper, etc. is just a loose 'felt' of fibers, not resin
bonded and is subject to release of fibers and accumulated debris under
increasing differential pressure. At increasing differential pressure they tend
to "unload" the trapped debris, thus capable of sending a 'storm' of
previously captured particulate and fibers down stream. Cellulose is a
fairly good filter media when constructed of a technical grade (ie.
all fibers of essentially the same diameter, etc.) and especially when
'resinated' to hold all the fibers together. However toilet paper, etc. is made
from cellulose that has quite random sized fibers, etc ....... ****and is
made to fall apart especially in septic tanks and cesspools when water
wetted*** - do you know of any fuel tanks that do not have water in them? These Trawler world folks use the following
report of their test methods: "The fuel was crystal clear
!!!" Hell, the very SMALLEST particle that you can see with
the unaided naked eye in good strong white light is 40+µM, lower than that you
need an optical microscope (which can only see down to 5 micrometers) and you
need to have the particle backlighted, or a laser particle counter, or a
scanning electron microscope, etc. or some correlation of such instrumentation;
..... certainly not some 'instant expert' with an unsubstantiated claim trying
to sell you something. This is absolute (100%) snake oil being offered
(huckstered) to the gullible. Where in hell is the Consumer Protection Agency
or the FTC ????????????
The "Ametek" type housing
is a generic polypropylene housing that is offered by essentially ALL filter
manufacturers. For fuel oil purposes it rates just barely OK as such a filter
housing holds the filter element in place by compression between the housing
bowl and housing head. One of the MOST important aspects of filter housing is
its ability to seal the filter edges to prevent BYPASS of particulate.
The problem with such housings is that you can inadvertently not correctly
position the filter element within the housing thus never accomplishing the
correct edge seal that 'bites' into the end of the filter cartridge; or, the
filter element can change dimensionally as the filter media shrinks or
swells. I offer that this Ametek type is the bare *minimum* to seal
versus greater than 1-2 micrometer particles.
The very best housing and filter system for fuels involves a filter that
has its own end caps of either polypropylene, etc. or stainless steel and most
importantly uses o-rings that fit into a cup in the housing (piston seal), etc
or are a self contained system that include all these attributes - Racor type.
Next best is a double open ended filter cartridge that is positioned with a tie
rod and a nut mounted in the housing with a flat polymer gasket 'glued' to the
ends of the filter cartridge. A filter cartridge mounted in an integral
polymer cage and end caps and fits into a piston cup with double O-rings is the
best .... but you're talking mega bucks for this type.
Trawler world and linked websites
that offer such filtration, etc. are resurrecting filtration that was abandoned
long ago when it was validated (repeatable and validatable testing) that they
performed so badly; their only characteristic is CHEAP AND DIRTY. Please
be advised that a manufacturer or filter distributor can arbitrarily rate the
retention rating of any filter.... and that does not necessarily mean anything
close to the actual (100%) rating. Filtration efficiency (weight percent
removal) is NEVER included with such filtration. If they were truly honest and
listed the actual efficiency, you'd NEVER buy them. Instead, they list baseless
claims, misdirecting testimonials, slick mumbo jumbo - snake oil ....
especially since a 'consumer' has no possible way to validate the ratings nor
the efficiency. When you buy any such filtration (protecting a $6000 engine) be
sure to have the supplier list in writing the removal efficiency (in weight
removal percent) and see what happens.... Commercial Filtration (Racor), Fram,
Purolater, etc. will gladly advise with documentation and test methods, ....
the snake oil artists will have no idea what you’re talking about. Compressed pubic hair probably can accomplish
10% efficiency !!!!!!
The type of filter housings that you
see at the Trawler world sites, etc. involve restraining the filter
cartridges with sharp edged cups that compress / bite into a (soft) end cap of
the filter. They are notorious for bypassing as the whole isolation of the
upstream fluid from the down stream fluid is totally dependent on the 'knife
edge' seal. In industry they are usually only found on filtration systems
that remove: "rocks stick and feathers" - this type of filtration was
essentially abandoned in industry in the 1950s. The tie rod types are
usually only good for filtration of 2 to 5 micrometers and above. The Integral
O-ring types can accomplish filtration in the nanometer range. ......... its
all a question of BYPASS of particulate at the end cap of the filter.
Toilet paper probably 5-10% efficient
(35¢), String wound: 60-70% ($1),
Compressed and resinated fibers 80% ($3). Spun bonded polypropylene and
resinated cellulose 90-97%. ($8), Pleated thermally set polypropylene
fibers: 99% ($30). Sintered stainless steel micro fibers and powder 99+%
($300). Polymer membranes: 100% ($150-250).
BTW: Kotex pads jammed into an
empty filter housing filter better than toilet paper.
So where does one get such
filtration? Go to your yellow pages or industrial directory and
look up a distributor of filtration offering: Osmonics, Fram, PTI, Pall,
Millipore, Mykrolis, Cuno , Commercial, Meissner, Sartorius, etc. ..... all
'front-line' and reputable filter manufacturers (but some also sell 'string
wound', so be careful). ....
discuss with an application engineer your application ....... and be
sure to ask for the removal efficiency.
The probable BEST (economy and SAFETY) choice of filter housing is
constructed of carbon steel with a TIE ROD and EPDM gaskets. When
discussing your application be sure to advise that you intend to filter diesel
fuel so that the application engineer can make the necessary corrections for
the viscosity of diesel fuel. If you
'engineer' you own system be advised that the volumetric flow values of most
pumps and filters are based on the viscosity of WATER and need to be corrected
for diesel fuel viscosity. When you buy a transfer pump, etc. be sure to
ask if the open "flow rating" is for water or for diesel fuel.
"Ya usually gets what ya pays
for" ......... what’s the price of a new injector pump or a set of
injectors? when the filter train is totally 'slimed' and you’re drifting
towards a lee shore and the crew is so seasick that the sails cant be set.
Rich Hampel September 2002
_______________________________________________________________________
Harvey, Thanks for posting Rich's
schematic.
Rich, In an earlier part of this thread
you stated that Belgoes does not sell good filters. Were you referring to the
Gulfcoast filter (GC-F1) (described in the Trawler World article by Capt. Will
at: www.trawlerworld.com/ ) which
apparently uses a roll of Bounty towels as its filter element? Can you comment
on the efficiency or efficacy of this
filter? It certainly has appeal from the cost standpoint. Also, can you give us a source and model
numbers for the "Ametek" type filter housing that you are using. And
thanks for the good info on fuel polishing...its my next project.
Jim Smiley (T37 SMILES) September 2002
________________________________________________________________________
Hi Rich,
I don't usually point out inaccuracies in
public chat but in the case of the discussion of light, particle sizes and size
of observable items, I have to state that you are incorrect. Light scattering
in liquids is used in the scientific community to detect particles on the order
of the wavelength of light. In the observable region of the E-M spectrum,
0.70um, one can easily, by naked eye, see the light scattered by particles less
than one micron in size. Thus, if the diesel fuel looks clear with no hazing or
light scattering, it sure is clean.
Another point, with an optical microscope, using oil
immersion lenses, the scientific community can see objects on the order of 0.20
microns. This is how biologists take those nice color photos of bacteria that
are 2.0 microns in size. One does not need to use an electron microscope.
Finally, I just can't seem to get
into this discussion of filters. Any person that spends thousands of dollars on
their boat and also on purchasing fuel should be buying first class filters to
protect their investments. If they are not, then they should not be on the
water - they are a hazard!
Jim Clemens s/v Athena September 2002
________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [tayana-list] Cleaning Diesel Tank
Hell, the very SMALLEST particle
that you can see with the unaided naked eye in good strong white light is
40+µM, lower than that you need an optical microscope (which can only see down
to 5 micrometers) and you need to have the particle backlighted, or a laser
particle counter, or a scanning electron microscope, etc. or some correlation
of such instrumentation; ..... certainly not some 'instant expert' with an
unsubstantiated claim trying to sell you something. This is absolute
(100%) snake oil being offered (huckstered) to the gullible.
Rich Hampel September 2002
________________________________________________________________________
Well, being
one who uses optical, etc. methods on a regular occurring basis to
validate correlations to micro, ultra and nanofiltrations, separations,
etc., I’m gonna tell ya back that oils do not have the background
transmissibility to the same level as an aqueous solution. The difficulty in transmissibility with oils
is the naturally occurring optical density "striations" and other
optical anomalies due to dissimilarities of optical density (locally and on a
macroscopic scale) probably due to the presence of emulsified, free, etc. water.
Only if the residence background is of **significant %** will one by an unaided
eye discern (subjectively) ANY particulate the difficulty of analysis by such
optical methods (unless using a Laser Particle Counter which accurately
measures particles one by one) is only by correlation and for my 2¢ doesn’t
come close to the real count. So the question back at ya is how is it
that those using such optical methods to count the density or magnitude ....
can never agree even using the same instrument and the same sample
!!!!!!
BTW.... those photos of 2,0µM bacterial were done
because someone trapped them on a nuclear membrane filter disc .... otherwise
they never would have found one by optical methods unless by
happenstance!!!! My workaday world is very deeply involved in 'particles'
, bacteria and such. ..... but we're going exponentially tangential
away from 'boats' at this point.
________________________________________________________________________
A record of
the differential vacuum will tell you when to change filters, and long before
the filters fully plug with crap.
Periodically make a record of the
hours of engine time (or gallons) versus the increasing vacuum on the gauge
with the engine running at a specified rpm - i.e.: 2000 rpm.
With enough data points (time vs.
vacuum) you can plot a graph. Most of the graph will be a straight line
that climbs at a constant angle over time. But as the filter begins to
become clogged you will notice that the plot will show a more rapidly
increasing vacuum, and the plot will start to climb (exponentially) and the
straight line now will begin to 'curve' upwards. Typically when the
plot begins to 'curve' upwards you have about 10% capacity left in the filter
and need to change it. The graph will give you a historical record
for comparisons later on of how clean the contents of the fuel tank is,
etc. OR if you notice that the vacuum has dropped - it means
the filter has broken and is now allowing particles to pass through the broken
media or you have developed a suction air leak in the piping. OR if
the life is short and the straight line is quite steep, then you can predict
how much larger in surface area you will need (without cleaning the tank or
polishing, etc.) to last between routine maintenance.
The ONLY way to monitor the
performance of a filter is with a pressure or vacuum gauge.
Rich Hampel September 2002
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My fuel line
is blocked between the tank and the Racor. Was told I ought to replace it
with rubber hose and forget the old metal one. Tank is under
V-berth. Racor is on bulkhead under cockpit. Any thoughts?
Both annealed copper piping and USCG approved Type A1 flexible
fuel hose meet ABYC/NFPA standards. Copper piping is typically more difficult
and expensive to install. It can also develop leaks due to corrosion, vibration
(metal fatigue), etc. Flexible hose is subject to chafe. If you choose flexible
hose, be sure to buy USCG approved Type A1 hose (marked accordingly along its
length) for its resistance to fire and permeation. Secure/support fuel
distribution and return lines as needed, e.g., every 12-18 inches, to prevent
chafe/metal fatigue and physical damage.
Bluetango October
2004
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The prices
for the filters being discussed seem very high.
Check the actual flow rate required for your engine. There is little
sense in having a filter designed to handle 500
gallons per hour, when you have an engine that only consumes 0.75
gallons per hour. (That appears to be the typical fuel consumption of a T-37
with a Perkins. I understand that the 30 HP Yanmar uses even less fuel per
hour). However, the calculation should also take into account the fact that
fuel flow is much higher than fuel consumption, as diesel engines return a
major portion of the fuel back to the fuel tank. The rule-of-thumb formula
given in the Boat/US catalogue is
engine h.p. X
0.36 = fuel flow
(g.p.h.) Using the Perkins 1-408 as an
example, the H.P. is about 50. Thus, 50 X 0.36 = 18 GPH The smallest Racor
filter listed for Diesel handles 15 GPH for about $75. This would probably be
plenty, but to play safe, you may want to go to the next size up, which handles
30 GPH. This accepts the R20 replaceable filter, which is 2 micrometers pore
size. The price on the 30 GPH unit is about $100, and the replacement paper
filter (R20) element is about $7. A canister filter bracket for the Wix
or Fram is about $25-$30. The filter is about $8-14, depending upon the brand
of filter selected.
Rather than dwelling on deciding
about which overly expensive oversized fuel filter to choose (at $750!), you
would be best advised to put in the proper size unit, but do it sooner to
protect your engine, and for a total cost of about $130. Since most boats probably already have some
portion of the system installed, it may only require adding the extra Wix/Fram
unit.
regards, Harvey March 2003
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So.... Where
can one buy the manifold with the nifty valve without the bigger filters?
Bruce Pappas March 2003
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I made mine!
Lucked out and talked to a local free lance mechanic who just happened to have some
left over manifolded Racor filters "from a power boat" in his garage.
I bought them both for $75.00 with home made valving to create the bypass set
up. I also purchased a new filter vacuum gauge from Racor. I spent something
like $160 and wound up with the equivalent of the approximately $700 + unit. It
works great too! I don't have the fancy single lever valve but properly labeled
the switching of the 4 valves is very straight forward and painless. I can do
it in about 10 seconds.
Materials are 2 Racor filters
and 4 ball valves plus hose and fittings for set up. I mounted mine on some
scrap 1/8" aluminum plate in the engine room with the gauge on the
interior near the nav station. I have not had a plugged filter since but when
it happens all I need to do is flip the valves to the 2nd filter position and
then change the first filter element so I'm ready to switch it again the next
time the flow gets restricted. We have bars to cross in Oregon and don't need a
clogged filter giving trouble at the wrong moment there.
Jeff Leech Orca V-42 CC March 2003
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Forget
RUBBER tubing! There is NO rubber on earth that will last more than
a several years in this service. The only other polymer alternative is
PTFE tube and that deforms and comes loose over time. Go to an automotive supply store and get
stainless tube, a tubing bending tool, ****a flaring tool and flare
fittings****. Avoid 'compression' fittings like the plague as they
ALWAYS eventually loosen and suck air. You will have to make a very
accurate cut across the tube or will need to 'dress' the tube end carefully
with a file before flaring.
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The service
life of USCG Type A1 fuel hose is typically in excess of 10 years, if not
subjected to battery acid/fumes or physical damage. Since stainless tubing is
not ABYC-approved (probably due to its propensity to corrode/pinhole in the
marine environment) for use in fuel distribution systems, it's likely to
garner adverse comment (including a recommendation for replacement) during
survey inspections.
Excerpts
from ABYC H-33 (Diesel Fuel Systems) are appended below. A copy of the complete
standard can be purchased/downloaded at www.abycinc.org
Susan Canfield Aeolus/T37
#-305 Annapolis, MD October 2004
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Specifications are usually obsolete the day after they are written.
The UL 114 Marine hose you list contains Buna rubber and a balata/'cotton duck'
reinforcement layer ..... which has been obsolete in industry for similar
service by about 15 years.
By today’s standard, industrial
standards (especially the more commonly accepted EU standards), EPDM replaces
EPR rubber which long ago replaced Buna (which replaced Neoprene).
What I recommend parallels the SAME
tube and arrangement that is ALREADY on the high pressure side of the injector
pump - solid stainless with flare (or banjo) fittings. For flex joints either SOLID 450 degree or
810 spiral return bends reduces virtually all propensity for cold working. For
short length flex connections either aircraft grade bellows (or link folded
metal tube ..... or EPDM hose with stainless external woven armoring is
preferred .... as would be consistent for most US Navy installations on prime
movers. This is the typical compliance approach for aircraft.
Copper reacts with the sulfur and oxygen in diesel fuel to form copper sulfate
(thus corrosion) when in the presence of water emulsions; and, is renown for
fatigue failure (especially the annealed grades). Just look at ON THE ENGINE
OEM fuel delivery componentry --- would not be compliant by ABYC if added as a
retrofit !!!!
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Rick,
While I
will agree some specifications are obsolete they day after they're
written (ABYC H-33 was last updated in 1998), I suspect you'll find that UL
1114 - Marine USCG Type A)Flexible Fuel-Line Hose - pre-dates the
development of Type A1 and A2 hose, and may have been referenced in H-33 in
error.
ABYC H-33
and the National Fire Protection Association Standard for Pleasure and
Commercial Motor Craft (NFPA 302, also last updated in 1998) permit the use of
Type A1, A2, B1 or B2 hose under specified conditions, e.g., inside or outside
the engine compartment, etc. Surveyors inspect to both ABYC and NFPA standards.
While Type A1 hose didn't exist when most of our boats were built, I'd
certainly recommend its use (in lieu of any other type of flexible marine-grade
hose) when OEM hose is due for replacement. Type A1 hose typically meets
SAE J1527.
I'm well
aware that stainless tubing is used for high pressure fuel lines on engines,
that's why I look at them closely for evidence of corrosion during survey
inspections. I recommend you discuss your views with ABYC's Technical
Director, John Adey, at (410) 956-1050 or jady@abycinc.org.
The next revision of H-33 can't be far off.
Sue Canfield Aeolus/T37
#-305 Annapolis, MD October
2004
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You're both
right, use the SS tubing for the long straight runs and rubber hose in the
bends and at the points of vibration.
Despite the
essential appeal of this rather Solomon-like approach, it would be better to
use all USCG Type A1 hose or all stainless steel tubing with a flex
section at the engine, thereby keeping the number of fuel line connections to a
minimum. Most fuel system leaks develop at connections.
Bill McMullen
October 2004
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Here's a
summary repeat:
20µM particles are designated as the
'most damaging' to injectors, pumps and other engine components. A 30µM
filter probably only filters to 50-100µM on a 100% basis, a 2µM probably at
15-20µM.
A typical prefilter (primary) should
be about ~5 times the retention size rating of the final (secondary). If
you have a *clean* system and tank, a 2µM will be quite adequate, protected by
a 10µM and the 10µM protected by a 30µM (they dont make 50µM). If your system and tank is dirty use a
10-15µM as the final filter.
If for some reason you are changing
from a larger retention to smaller retention, and the original system is
performing with adequate on stream service life, INCREASE the surface area of
the new smaller retention filter. Running a high vacuum across a small
retention size filter will/can break or wear out the diaphragm in your lift
pump. LARGER surface area is 'always' better; buy the 'largest' filter that you
can fit. If you are running and the
filters clog, don’t change to a smaller retention sized filter; but, change to
a larger sized filter (and suffer the wee bit of extra engine wear) but at
least it will take more time for the larger filter to 'choke'.
Monitor your fuel filters with
gauges, so you know WHEN to change them. Run the engine at WOT - wide
open throttle, note the gage pressure when the filters are new and periodically
monitor the increase in pressure change over time.
Rich Hampel Ty37 #423 "Aquila" November 2005
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