Espar Heaters
     from the 
       Sailnet/TOG Tayana List 

     www.espar.com/htm/applies/marine.htm

       www.eberspacher.com/marine1.php?section=marine

    Does anybody up in the north have cabin heat onboard?  If so what do you have and do you like it?

    My local guy is suggesting:

   The Espar unit that has been suggested for your size vessel is the Espar D4. It is a two outlet system starting at $2111.00. The Webasto unit that is recommended is the Webasto AT3500, another two outlet system, this one starting at $2333.00.

     Installation for either unit will take anywhere from 16 hours and beyond at $65/hour.

     Experience reports with either of these would be most welcome.  Equally welcome are descriptions of alternatives. Thanks.	

Greg											     January 2001
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Greg,
    The forced air Espar is wonderful. We had one on a boat we borrowed from some friends when sailing north of Vancouver. Definitely the best solution if you can spring for the bucks.

Harvey											     January 2001
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Todd,
   We have had fairly extensive experience with the Espar (also called Eberspacher) on a boat that we have used for the past three or four summers along the coast of British Columbia. It uses ducted hot air, burns minute amounts of diesel fuel, and is absolutely terrific. The D4 is the correct unit for a 37-footer. It has a thermostat, and works with the simplicity of your house heating system. On cool mornings in September, the first person out of the bunk turns it on. Within a few minutes, it fully heats up the interior of our friend's 35-footer. He has an enclosed dodger, so we then go up into the cockpit with coffee and wearing only shorts and a tee shirt, and can sit comfortably in toasty comfort, sipping our coffee and staring at the glaciers.

   The price you are being quoted is typical, but outrageous. Two problems - the units being sold in the U.S. are often not the latest model. The latest models have a fully digital controller with much better control than the old manual controllers. The other issue is the price and ease of installation.
    You can buy the same unit from Chandleries in England for about half that amount. They are packaged as DIY units - DIY = Do-It-Yourself. This is not rocket science. You have to lay out the plans for where you want the duct work, and cut holes in the correct places for the outlet plenums (?Hmm? Should that be plenata?), run a small diesel fuel line, cut a hole for the exhaust, mount the burner, and run a line from a circuit breaker. The exhaust line is small and unobtrusive, and uses a 1" or 1.5" inch exhaust line on the stern of the boat.

   The major problem with ordering it from England is the high volume of the DIY package, as it includes a lot of low cost flexible duct pipe. But try MMS Direct in Sheppington, England. It really makes sailing in cold climate a pleasure.

   We had the same unit on a boat we chartered this past fall in Sweden. What a god-send!  We installed a Force 10 Cozy Cabin heater before we learned about the Espar.  We have the pressure diesel unit, and it is really lousy in comparison to the Espar. But the Force 10 only costs about $300 or $400.

regards, Harvey							      		     February 2002
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   What is the diameter of the venting flue that goes through the coach roof?  I presently have a Force 10 Cozy Cabin Diesel heater. It uses a pressurized tank, and a Primus type of burner. It looks a lot better than it performs. It was a bit too cozy for comfort, when it flamed out of control and practically burned up the boat. I subsequently learned how to use it at less risk, but still don't feel comfortable with it. I had thought of converting to the Propane version, but the notion of adding yet another propane line into the cabin was not appealing. The worst part of the Cozy Cabin Force 10 is that it just doesn't put out enough heat to really warm things even during our San Diego winters (temps in the  40's), and is near worthless when the companionway is open to the cockpit.

   In the event that we end up trucking north to Seattle and then sailing up to Alaska, I was considering a better heater. We were impressed with the performance and heat output of the Espar heater on boats we used in Pacific Northwest. Anyone have experience comparing the Espar and the Dickinson. The Espar uses ducting, with a proper thermostat, and was really a delight. Turn the thermostat up and in 5 minutes the cabin is warm as toast. But price is about $2,000 (U.S.), and installation may be complicated.

 regards, Harvey								  	      August 2002
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   It's been a while but the last time I was up Chesapeake way I had a friend on a Tayana 37 with an Espar diesel fired cabin heater. The first year was a nightmare for him because it kept sooting up every week or so. He discovered, accidentally, that if you thin the diesel down approx 50/50 with kerosene there would be no more problems with sooting up. The other trick was to put a fan inline that would supply fresh air to the system to keep things HOT and BURNING completely. Incomplete combustion is not a good thing. I'll need to start paying attention to these things again as it looks like we may be up there for a winter soon ( '04-'05 ).

Kevin McPadden									     October 2003
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   With all the talk of cabin heaters, I did some research on Webasto and Espar units.  Both of these units are considered the "Porsches" of heaters from what I read.
 
   Espar is one brand of diesel heater that uses forced air.  List price is around  $4,200 for the 5LC unit which would work in a Tayana.  Below is a website to obtain the manuals on their products....They also sell hydronic units as well.  Most research I read, says to stay away from hydronic units on smaller boats due to complexity and maintenance etc.
www.espar.com/htm/tecmans.htm
 
   Webasto is a second brand with costs around $3,200 for their AT 5000 unit which would work in a Tayana.  Again, the below website is not listed, but contains all their manuals.... http://www.techwebasto.com/blueheat_main.htm .
 
   Both units are made in Germany according to the Espar distributor in Rhode Island.  He said the factories are right down the road from each other.  I asked why the Espar was so much more money and he spoke about distribution channel's etc.  Webasto doesn't have as many middle men/women.
 
   One issue I see with both these styles of heaters that are considered "forced air" versus types like Dickinson which are considered "draft" is that the exhaust lines need to be channeled out of the stern of the boat well above the water line.  I already had a heater exhaust cap in my coach roof, but both manufacturers recommended not using a coach roof exhaust.  Thus, the most likely installation for a unit is in the cockpit locker.  Some folks didn't like the fact that the unit is operating in the locker where you couldn't see it.  The other issue would be routing the ducting forward in the boat.  With Tayana lockers etc, this can be a bit of an issue.  I believe both manufacturers recommended around 4-5 vents within the cabin off the main distribution line.
 
   I see the advantage of the forced air type of heater is the complete lack of diesel smell.  Has anyone had good luck with bulkhead mounted heaters?  I really hate the smell of diesel and would like to have some heat while anchoring on cold nights.  I froze my Christmas ornaments off in Matagorda bay last year around the holidays.  No fun!
 
John Hovan	s/v Celtic Dream							     October 2004
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Gerard,
    If I was ready to buy a high end unit, I also would choose Webasto.  I think the Espar unit is simply too much money.  The Espar rep even admitted that their unit cost was somewhat higher.  
 
John Hovan										     October 2004
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   I had an Espar heater (D-5) installed on my Mason 43 about 6 weeks ago.  So far, it is doing fine and keeping us toasty in the Annapolis, Maryland area.

   I also had an Espar (D-4) on the Tayana 37 I lived on for about 5 years back in the early 90's.  That heater was the primary reason I bought another Espar.

   A couple thoughts on Espar’s:
1) I have always heard that a proper electrical installation of the Espar is essential.  If you cannot do this yourself, then pay someone to do it.  In fact, the only problems I have ever encountered with my Espar’s have been electrical in nature, and stemming from the boat (i.e. battery charger being turned off), rather than the heater.
2)  Make sure you are able to keep the voltage up high.  If the batteries begin to loose voltage, the glow plug and screen will become fouled.  If you do not have a constant readout volt meter on board, the Espar will notify you of the fouling by blowing smoke and your smelling diesel exhaust.  With my current battery setup, I can be off shore power (or alternator) for about 5 days without a voltage problem.
3)   Carry spares (glow plug, screen, filter and fuel metering pump).
4)  Have the heater serviced annually.  This includes cleaning of the blower motor and changing the glow plug and screen.  This is especially true for cruisers, in that they tend to have much lower voltages than boats that are kept on shore power during the heating season.
5) As far as fuel consumption is concerned, I do not know at this time.  I would venture to say somewhere between 1-3 gallons a day, depending upon the weather.

   Things I like about the Espar:
1)  Being a diesel heater, it requires that I use the fuel in my tanks, rather than have it age.
2) It tends to be quiet.  Granted, you hear the sound of warm air blowing and the ticking of the fuel metering pump, but that is something easily lived with.

Enough for now, Jim Burns								     January 2005
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   In regards to the Espar D-5 Heaters:

Cost:  Someplace between $2,000 - 3,000 if you install it yourself.  If you have it done for you on a 
Tayana 37 it might cost between $5,000 -6,000.

Noise:  The noise exiting the transom is surprisingly quiet.  In fact, having had an older Espar, I was very surprised at how quiet it is.  On my boat, most folks coming aboard are not even aware the heater is on while standing in the front of the cockpit.  Bear in mind that my boat is a Mason, so the transom is not quite as exposed as a Tayana.

Ducking requirements:  Mostly we have runs of 3 inch ducting.  Some are 4 inch.  Granted, this is much larger than the hoses required for the newer hydronic systems.  Some folks like to run the hoses through the bilge, which keeps the engine and all warm.  However, when exposed to the dampness of the bilge, they reportedly last only 3-4 years.

Heating ability:  My kids like a cabin temp of about 65 degrees.  To achieve that temperature, we keep the heater at a relative low setting (5 of 15).  We might bump it up several notches if the temps go into the low 20's or teens.

I hope this help you out.

Jim Burns										     January 2005
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