Batteries
        from the 
          		      		       Sailnet Tayana List

    How long lasting are the sealed lead-acid batteries? Are there special precautions when recharging? I have a bank of golf cart batteries and a Heavy Duty Starter (used only for starting). They are both under the quarter berth, which makes it a pain to check them. It means taking off all the accumulated junk, cushions, partially finished projects, then lifting off the mattress, the boards, and finally getting to the batteries. On a few occasions, I just happened to work up the energy to do all this at a point when the water was dangerously low, but still above the plates. 

    BTW, I was just looking at an Island Packet and saw that they have a really sturdy method of storage of batteries. They have a sturdy compartmentalized tray, with built-in heavy steel rods in the top that retain the batteries even in the event of complete rollover. In that instance, they use sealed Gel batteries, so they don't have to worry about fluid levels. Of course, since the Gel batteries have a different resting voltage, they can't easily be mixed with lead acid batteries (although I think that Balmar's smart regulator can be set for a variety of combinations of batteries?). 

Harvey J. Karten										May 2001
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    The ones I am talking about are not just sealed lead acid batteries, as in "maintenance free" batteries. Each cell in the Optima batteries (www.optimabatteries.com) is wound in a cylinder in such a way that it is stronger and more efficient. Check the web site to learn about the engineering, but the practical result is that you get the best of both conventional and gel (or AGM) batteries. Exide has just come out with something similar, but I have had no recommendation on them and their web site (www.exideworld.com ) is pretty unhelpful. Again, I have no first hand knowledge about these yet. They were recommended to me by Dick Simons, who is considered by many to be the best marine electrician in San Diego. 

    Based on their specs, you would not need to worry about special charging as you do with gels and AGM’s. They can tolerate charging voltages up to 15v, well above the 14.4 you would use with your golf carts. Obviously, with a maximum of 15v you would take them off line when you equalize your house bank, but you would probably want to do that any way as there is generally no need to equalize a starting battery. The main advantage is their low self-discharge rate of >1% a month. Even gels are about 3% a month. 

    Gels also have a different max charging voltage, 14.1 volts, so the conventional wisdom against mixing battery chemistries still makes sense. Even if Balmar makes a regulator that can handle two types of batteries in one system, you need to be careful that your other charging sources can as well. Both the shore power charger and the solar and/or wind generator regulator would have to be set for the battery type with the lowest charging voltage, which would increase charging time for the other. 

Kent	S/V Que Tal	T-37	 #165 								May 2001
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Practical Sailor did a review of these in Volume 26 #20 Oct. 15, 2000.

John Reynolds											May 2001
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    I thought I would share a great source for large battery cable wire.

    During our new electric windlass install process, we searched for a reasonably priced source and found one. I couldn't believe the price per foot vs. the other sources we had found. The cheapest we found, other than this source, was Jamestown Distributor at around $4 something per foot for 2/0 wire.

    We ended up paying about $1.60 per foot (we purchased 42' pos,neg) for 2/0 wire!! It appears to be the same stuff you would buy at a marine store; multi-strand tin coated copper, etc. It looks the same except for the coating which is not shinny like the other stuff. We paid $1.60 per foot, but the price may be cheaper if their 'cut stock' they have on hand meets your needs. Ours was cut to order. A neighbor here at out dock paid $1.40 per foot for 2/0 because they purchased the cut stock/product that was available at the distributor.

    We purchased the wire from Anixter.  (708) 597-7110.  The general website is  http://anixter.com/

    It is a very 'deep site', so the following link narrows it down and will get you into the 'big electrical wire area'.
http://onlinecatalog.anixter.com/catalog/SearchResultsServlet?QUERY=KEYWORD-SEARCH&KEYWORD=Prestolite

    The part #s for 2/0; Prestolite, 5MF-2021-EPDM and 5MF-2021-EPDM-03-HYS.

Walter		SOLTARA								   September 2002
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Subject:  Charging different size battery banks

    When charging a bank of 4 six-volt batteries with a 3-stage regulator (batteries drawn down 150 amp hours), the voltage will start off around 13.9, decrease a little as they begin to charge, and then slowly ramp up to 14.4 VDC. The charger then holds this voltage and the amps begin to drop off.  When the amps go down to 10% of the original charging amps, the charger drops the voltage back to 13.2. When the batteries are full (which only happens when motoring a long time), the charger still holds float - 13.2 VDC. This voltage is the same voltage used by 110 VAC battery chargers for long periods of time. This can not only extend battery life but also diminish the amount of water needed during maintenance. In fact, it may well be in many cases that excessive water loss due to bubbling of the electrolyte at 14.4 VDC is a primary cause of premature battery failure.  The above only applies to my 450 amp-hour battery bank.

     I have a 225 amp-hour bank of 2 six-volt batteries that reaches 14.4 volts in just minutes and then the amps start ramping down immediately. The original 55-amp alternator that came with my boat will charge this bank as fast as my 120-amp alternator. Small battery bank = small amps to achieve 14.4 VDC. My six Surrette 6-volt batteries lasted 8 years before a lightning strike put long, half-inch wide cracks in the top of 3 of the batteries.  I replaced the batteries even though the batteries still performed just fine. My four Rolls 6-volt batteries only lasted 7 years before one failed.  I now use the GC-2 6-volt batteries from West ($99 each) that are a direct replacement for the Rolls size-wise, although 10 amp-hours less. The problem with battery banks is that when one goes, you need to replace all batteries in that bank. Therefore, I agree that sometimes cheaper can be better. And standard golf-cart batteries have the exact same size and post configuration as the West GC-2's. Changing out batteries is easy if the new ones don't require changing battery connectors or lengthening battery wires.

Wayne Strausbaugh    V-42       C/C	RESTLESS					          October 2002
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    Peace & Quiet has three 4D lead-acid batteries, 120 amp-hours each, set up into two banks - a single battery in one bank & 2 on the other. I am curious as to what methods other owners use to determine when it's time to charge. The three methods that I have available now are: 1) Estimate approximate usage per day of devices (not very accurate) 2) Use a hydrometer to measure specific gravity (a lot of trouble) 3) Measure the voltage of the bank with the analog voltmeter built into the electrical panel (how accurate is this?).  I know that there are devices available that monitor the banks such as those made by Ample but am interested in a lower tech method. Any thoughts?

Alan Jett											March 2003
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Subject: battery monitoring 
    I had an E-meter on my NorSea 27 and really liked it. I spent most of today installing a link 20 (double bank E-meter) on my new Tayana. Monitoring the engine start battery is probably not necessary so the E-meter (now known as the Link 10) would have probably been adequate for my purposes.

    It is really difficult to estimate power usage. I got a much better idea of our power use patterns after I installed the E-meter and watched it for a few weekends of cruising. It keeps a running total on the amp-hours you have drawn out of the bank. It also tells you how much is being drawn at any point in time. It can be a real shock to see how the combination of the fridge, anchor light, the light someone forgot to turn out in the head, stove solenoid, stereo, etc. add up to a major drain. Eventually, I got good enough at it that I could tell what loads were on by the amperage being drawn. The kids have never figured out how I knew they had left the light in the head on. They think I’m psychic. 

    The meter tells you more than when it is time to charge the batteries. It also tells you when its time to stop charging. I have always found myself wanting to turn the engine off as soon as possible. The meter keeps you honest and lets you know when you have the bank 90% charged. 

    Friends who have cruised extensively in Mexico say the amp hour meters are an essential item in the proper maintenance of the battery bank. It is especially useful if you have "non-linear" charging devices like solar panels and wind generators adding amp-hours back into the bank. 

    A properly used hydrometer tells you a lot more than a meter, though...  I have found the analog panel meters to be of limited utility since the voltage reading can be a poor indicator of the state of charge if there has been no load on the battery for a while. I suspect (but have never calculated) that the amp-hour meter pays for itself in extended battery life.  The Glacier Bay web page (www.glacierbay.com) has a really good article in their technical library on the design and maintenance of battery banks. 

John Lewis										March 2003
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John, 
    How difficult did you find doing all the wiring? I'm assuming that this a shunt unit that is installed on the ground side of the battery? 

    I've seen some new technology hitting the market whereby a shunt is not needed. Some of the new devices are supposed to read the inductance on the battery cables. This would make installation a snap. But, I don't think they would be as accurate as a shunt. 

John Hovan										        March 2003
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    On the NorSea, the installation was more difficult because the electrical system had not been designed with the E-meter in mind. On the new Tayana, it’s a piece of cake. The link 20 uses a dual shunt where one end of the shunt is tied together and the other is separate for the two banks. There are separate, twisted-pairs of sense wires going to each side of the shunt. 

    The Tayana has a negative electrical buss in the lazarette where all the major black cables come together. I just made a 4" cable to go from that buss to the shunt and connected the battery bank cables to the shunt instead of the buss. The positive electrical buss is in the same little cabinet so those connections are easy too. I still have a few more wires to connect before I can see if it all works but its not a difficult install, especially in the spacious Tayana.

    I have seen ammeters that use inductance sensors and suspect they are adequate for that purpose but would wonder how noise sensitive they would be when the amp data is being integrated over time. The instructions with the link 20 seem very concerned about shielding the sense wires from interference and they sell a special cable that consists of a set of twisted pairs twisted inside a polypro sheath. If you do the install, I think this special cable is a bargain compared with making up the cable yourself.  If you install the link 10 to monitor one bank, its easier because you just leave your existing, starting battery wiring in place and only put the shunt on the house bank. 

    This is a one-day project if you have all the crimp fittings and cables on hand. 

John Lewis											March 2003
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I recently replaced my 8D Gel batteries. After considerable shopping, a great deal was found at batterystuff.com.  A pleasure to do business with...I highly recommend them.
www.4unique.com/battery/batteries.htm
 
Also, spoke with a battery manufacturer who sells both AGM & Gel batteries. He admitted that AGM are not as durable as Gel's when deep-cycled.
 
Gil Katz	s/v Freedom	 T-52  								March 2003
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    Sometimes you can restore an apparently dead gel cell by inverting it and charging it while inverted.

Rich Hampel											March 2003
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    Prudence, my Tayana 37, has two battery banks, both 8Ds. One is used for starting and one for the house. I'm engaged in updating the alternator charging system and am interested in what others have done. 

    Do you suggest a "battery combiner" or some other such device to separate the charging systems?

    How about a manual system to isolate one bank from the other for charging purposes?

    Please suggest specifics, in other words, my local West Marine shop is promoting a Xantrex battery combiner, for ~$200 which would provide automatic protection. The Xantrex unit also electronically "separates" each bank until they both reach parity, then combines the two to bring them up to full charge. 

    Is there any other device/system/idea(s) I should be considering?

    BTW, I currently have a 100-amp alternator into a Blue Seas DC Parallel Panel. This panel keeps the house and starting banks separate, and can manually combine the two for emergencies.

John Kalpus	S/V Prudence	  Tayana 37	San Diego  					 June 2003
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    Balmar has a new device called a dual charge that is supposed to allow you to charge a second bank independently (even if its a different type of battery)....

    If you put both your 8Ds in one big bank, you would be able to cram electrons into it faster. Buy a smaller battery for engine starting and rig a switch that would let you select the house bank for engine starting if necessary.

    Glacier Bay has a very good article about battery bank sizing in their technical library: www.glacierbay.com. 

John Lewis											June 2003
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Subject: Charging separate battery banks...

    The cable connecting the batteries should be a standard battery cable and NAPA sells them in different lengths.  Since the distance between the connectors (positive on one battery and negative on the other battery) is very short, heating and voltage drop are not issues for house batteries, since the current is less than 100-amps and the wire about 1 cm in diameter. Copper can carry 100,000 amps before significant heating and failure occur.  Most failures occur at connections where the cross-sectional area is small.

s/v ATHENA		Jim Clemens								June 2003
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Subject: Golf-cart batteries

    The T-125 is rated at 235 Amp Hours and weighs 66 lbs. The T-105 is rated at 225 Amp Hours and weighs 62 lbs. I have always used the T-105’s which I buy from a local golf cart dealer for about $55.00 ea. The T-125s costs about $68.00 each (here in SC).

James W. Smiley	Isle of Palms, SC							June 2003
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Subject: battery cable

    The marine grade cable is tinned, and generally has a more robust insulation on it. I would not use automotive cable, as the strand size is a little on the large size, making the cable stiffer (harder to run and more prone to fatigue).

    I have heard of people using welding cable. It has a very heavy insulation and very small strand size. But it is not tinned, making it more prone to corrosion.  If it were my project, I would shop around and get the best deal I could on marine-grade, tinned cable. Do not underestimate the importance of properly making and sealing the terminal ends. That is probably more important than the cable you use.

Frank Timmons 	V42 	Magic Dragon	 Deltaville, VA			          August 2003
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Subject: battery cable

Frank,
 Thanks for your reply and I will follow your advice.. The connectors on the cables that I have removed have a very nice double crimp and are sealed with something. Is there a reasonably priced tool for the crimping? What should I use to seal the connectors?

Thanks, Alan Jett								    	           August 2003
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Alan
    The price of a double crimper is outrageous (a good unit is $200-$300). But that is the only proper way to put the fittings on the large 2/0 cable.  However, most chandleries, including West Marine, have double action crimpers available at no charge. Some places, such as San Diego Marine Exchange, even allow you to borrow the crimpers for an hour or two so you can do the work on the boat itself.

    I suggest that you confine your choice of wires to proper marine tinned wire. Slip on oversized heat shrink tubing before you put on the crimp connector; double crimp the correct size connector based on screw diameter; then cover the opening of the base of the connector with liquid black tape; then slide the heat shrink and heat it to seal the whole thing. The liquid black tape should ooze out.

regards, Harvey										August 2003
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Harvey:
    Something I have done to keep costs down, is to use double "O" non-tin wire, saving some money, but I coat the ends and battery cable terminals with Corrosion Block. Since 1995, when I got my boat, I haven't had a bit of corrosion. The stuff really does well as a Di-Electric fluid to displace water, salt laden moisture and won't conduct electricity. Most folks are turned off by the 18 dollar price per can but I also use it on my rigging to displace moisture, my computer and track ball (which did wonders to make it work smoothly) and sprayed it on my computer parts, e.g. connections. I also ran a long, 33 feet of non-tin double wire to my windlass for both negative and positive wires, and have used it in Mexico extensively and coated the ends with C-Block also. Except for moderate stiffness of the wire, similar to tinned stuff, no rusts or corrosion at all.  In environments with lead acid batteries, a routine coating, maybe done annually, could prove helpful. AGM batteries, I feel, are not prone to having the terminals or wires become affected by corrosion, but coating them won't hurt either. I also coat engine room parts with it, but keep it away from rubber hoses, except for clamps. Outboard motors, pumps and similar electrical equipment will last a whole lot more.

    Another trick I use for terminals is either Red or White acrylic nail polish, for purchase at most Walgreens for a buck. I coat them accordingly, and that helps, and please make sure that you explain the bottles of nail polish to your significant other, so there are no misunderstandings. Take care.

Nicholas	"Eclipse"	 42cc	San Diego, CA					August 2003
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    Has anyone had experience with the Lewco chargers for batteries? My 6-volt golf cart batteries (Trojan 105 units) are only 3 years old, have on two occasions been over discharged when the shore power was off for several days and the refrigerator running. But I had generally taken care of the batteries properly. But they now seem to fail to hold a charge and have to be replaced. I did notice that I had made a note at the time I installed them that their specific gravity was somewhat low for new batteries. But I wonder if the Lewco has performed properly.

regards, Harvey									         October 2003
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Sidenote:
    Go to www.amplepower.com website and do a site search for "battery conditioning" or "battery reconditioning" Sometimes a battery can be 'reconditioned' via a specific manual discharge/recharge protocol .... back to useful life.
    BTW: New batteries have to be properly 'cycled/conditioned' before putting on service ..... or relatively short life; same process to 'recondition'.  ;-)

Rich Hampel										         October 2003
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In a note Harvey Karten wrote: " But they now seem to fail to hold a charge."

    Hi Harvey, could you please quantify what you mean by your statement.  Golf cart batteries can be completely discharged and then recharged without significant damage? So if you quantify your statement, then maybe a better description of the problem would be available. Also, have you contacted the manufacturer's technical support team? They are usually very helpful.

    Finally, slight variations in the PH of the electrolyte are not a major issue and, in fact, there are references to changing the PH of a battery as a function of the ambient temperature of the batteries. Try Nigel Calder’s book on this subject. I run my batteries with a PH for tropical settings - lower PH setting and my generator battery has lasted for five years. Most batteries have their life shortened by being overcharged. Typical case is letting batteries sit on a battery charger constantly. Genset batteries are usually isolated from the other batteries. This is done so that if one inadvertently discharges the house batteries and the main engine battery, they can then be recharged from the generator using on-board battery chargers.

    This is a configuration used on most long distance cruising boats, since one does not want to get caught in "nowhere" with a complete set of dead batteries.

Jim Clemens										          October 2003
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Jim,
    My statement "But they now seem to fail to hold a charge" was an implication based on the fact that when preparing to pull away from the dock, I disconnected the shore power. I then tried to start the engine, and rather than the very brisk immediate start, the starter barely turned over when cranking from my house bank (a pair of 6-volt Golf Cart batteries). I then shifted to my "starter battery", a 12-volt dual function starter/deep cycle, and the engine started immediately.

    The same thing happened again today. I turned off the engine and checked the voltage on the house bank with the digital voltmeter built in to the Link 10, and was surprised to see that the voltage was still reading about 12.8 volts.

    At the moment, I am entertaining several different thoughts as to what might be happening, but would welcome some more knowledgeable advice.  
1) Perhaps there is a partial break in the cable from the house bank resulting in a lack of sufficient current to the starter. After checking the voltage on the batteries after trying to start, I didn't see a major voltage drop as expected if the batteries are dying.
2) Perhaps the starter is defective - but then why did the smaller 12-volt battery - and with a somewhat lower residual charge of only about 12. 6 volts - manage to start the engine so easily.
3) Perhaps the golf cart batteries are close to the end of their effective life in terms of reserve capacity.  However, when I checked the specific gravity of each of the cells in the golf cart batteries, they were all almost perfectly equal and gave readings of about 1.27.

    Interestingly, the 12-volt battery that so easily started the motor was extremely low on electrolyte. I therefore could not get an accurate reading of the specific gravity, as I had to add a great deal of water. Once it comes to equilibrium by tomorrow morning, I will be able to check that out.

    The point raised by Ted Tomasek is of interest - that the Lewco is a single stage design charger, rather than the more desirable three-stage charger. This could well result in overcharging, with progressive decline in battery reserve.

    I am prepared to replace all the batteries, but rather than risk repeating this short life of the batteries, would like to know if the Lewco design is really so poor that it would worth the price of replacing it with a verified three stage charger?

    The suggestion that I deep discharge the batteries repeatedly is made by Ample Power Technologies. They claim that a golf cart battery should be deep discharged about three times to restore its ability to take a full charge.  Sounds a bit like using leeches to get rid of the "bad blood", but that might serve as a desulfating regimen.

regards, Harvey  									October 2003
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Harvey,
    Everything I read indicates a three-stage charger (and a three-stage alternator controller) do what is best for your battery life. Of course, you'll have to calculate the cost/benefit ratio of buying a new charger compared with living with a shortened battery life.

Here are some very lucid articles on battery death, the rationale behind three-stage charging, etc:

http://www.e-marine-inc.com/articles/battery_charging.html

http://www.jackrabbitmarine.com/reference/dialogs_list.html

HTH, Charlie	  s/v Kamaloha    T37     #542						         October 2003
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Hi Harvey,
    Nice description of the problem. I would probably start to resolve this problem in the following way.

    First check all exposed electrical connections for any corrosion. Then check the wiring. It should all be multi-strand and securely wire tied in place. The starter motor can draw up to 100+ amps and even very small resistance’s (R < 0.1 ohm) at terminal lugs, in the wire and switch contact points can cause enough resistance to limit the starting current. Then there is the solenoid that actually is operated by the starter switch. If it is the same one for both battery banks, then it can be eliminated as a cause, since it works with the starter battery. Since you have checked the voltage of the "coupled" golf cart batteries and it is acceptable, then there is the possibility that internal resistance is building up in the house bank batteries. Sulfating is one method of increasing the internal resistance and lowering the current output of batteries. So "deep" cycling them is one method of reducing the sulfation product on the battery plates. The high voltage applied while charging them helps to break up the sulfate deposit on the electrode.

    There is something else to keep in mind. Starter batteries and deep cycle batteries are very different types of batteries. The difference is in the internal plate design. Starter batteries are designed to yield huge current outputs for short periods of time, while deep cycle batteries are made to yield moderate currents ( > 100 amperes - exact amount depends on the battery size, specs., etc.). You stated that the starter motor battery was a deep cycle/starting battery. I would suggest that you check this out with the manufacturer. Many boats are wired so that the main engine starter battery can be paralleled with the house bank batteries. But I have found this to be a risky situation. One can inadvertently draw down the starter battery, as one draws down the house bank batteries. What I usually do is disconnect the starter battery from house bank when I am at a marina or on anchor. I also always keep the genset battery isolated from the other batteries (belt and suspenders approach).

    Now the comments regarding the battery charger are very important. I use Statpower three-stage smart battery chargers - model 40+, and they work very well. But even these have a tendency to overcharge batteries if they are left on all the time when the boat is at the marina - shore power. The batteries will be over charged and the indication of this condition happening is that the battery temperature starts to increase due to an internal resistance build-up. One finally reaches a internal battery temperature where the batteries give off an acid smell. This happened to my house and starter batteries, and they all failed in a time span close to each other - 3 years.  This internal resistance will also limit the current output of the batteries and may be the first indication of battery overcharging. The test voltage was acceptable.

    My genset battery is not sitting with the charger attached and it is still working beautifully after five years and years of daily use. The genset has an internal alternator that recharges the battery. So the evidence is consistent with what many professional boaters, charter captains and others have told me. Basically, overcharging is the most common failure mode for marine batteries.

    Finally, I would recommend a smart three-stage battery charger and one that also has the capability to act as a constant voltage source. The Statpower chargers can be set to supply a constant voltage and varying current. There are two models - one that supplies up to 20 amperes and another that supplies up to 40 amperes.

    I have to check this out. It's on my list of many things to do. If it is so, then at the marina after recharging the batteries to full charge, one could disconnect the batteries from the charger, and then run the boat systems off the charger and let the batteries "rest". I am still in the learning mode on this secondary issue. However, if it is possible, then one can extend the life of batteries and eliminate a potential source of fire. Just a little rewiring is necessary.

    I agree with the comments made by Ted Tomasek. It is important to use a three-stage battery charger.

Jim Clemens		s/v ATHENA T58						         October 2003
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    Many thanks to the several useful letters from the members of the group. This is probably far too lengthy a report, but this was a day that I am unlikely to ever forget!  Having taken Ted, Jim's and several other people's advice to get rid of the Lewco charger and get a modern type of three-stage charger, I stopped at the local Chandlery to ask the price and their suggestions as to various brands. They were also insistent that the Lewco chargers are the major source of battery failure - usually due to overheating and evaporation of the water from the sulfuric acid. He suggested the new generation of Newmar three-stage chargers, such as the PT-25. After hearing the price (ca. $400), I gulped and thought that will have to be the next purchase - maybe even sometime in the next few days. A prescient thought, perhaps, but a foolish hope that I could stall spending a hunk of dough for a bit longer.

    One of the points I had made was that I found that the starter battery fluid level was way down and the plates clearly exposed. I topped the battery cells with distilled water yesterday, and left the battery on charge with my Lewco.
 
    I went to the boat and by chance, replaced the battery cover, and the plywood sheets between the batteries and the overlying quarter berth. I tried to start the motor using only the house bank, while watching the readings on the digital voltmeter on the Link 10 that monitors the house bank. I was a bit surprised to find that even though the starter quickly ran down and then failed to turn over completely, the voltage on the house bank didn't drop significantly, and remained in the range of 12.7 volts. I then shifted to the starter battery plus the house bank and it started right up.  As a chronic tinkerer, I couldn't leave well enough alone, and decided to pull the kill cable while turning over the starter, as a test of the battery reserve, as suggested by Calder and a number of other mayvins. I turned the key, heard an abortive start and then a "pop". After that, all was dead as a doornail. I couldn't turn over the engine, and couldn't even get a clicking from the solenoid. I feared that I really had a dead starter. But I then found that I had no power to my bilge pump or several other electronics.
 
    At that point, and for reasons that weren't completely based on clear thinking, I decided to check the batteries. I removed the mattress on the quarter berth and then the plywood. I was very puzzled as I couldn't see the plastic piece that covers three of the six wet cells on the 12-volt starter battery. But I did notice that there was a black gooey stain on the plywood that had been over the battery. There were scattered bits of fluid, and I suspected that they might be sulfuric acid. Closer examination of the battery revealed that the casing of the battery had exploded and the top half of the battery was lifted up! The battery post was completely melted down and the battery wire (1/0 wire) lying freely in the compartment! The blessing was that I had the battery in a battery box with a sealed bottom, rather than just in an open battery tray.

    After some really cautious moves, I managed to get the battery out of the battery box and into a spare battery box that could be safely moved about. I was very concerned about the dangers of working with a ruptured battery still filled with sulfuric acid. The odor of the sulfuric acid was very distinctive.
 
    Back to San Diego Marine Exchange - I bought the Newmar PT 25 charger and a new "starter/deep cycle 27M battery". The person at SD Marine Exchange suggested that what had apparently happened was that the original battery had gone so dry, that when I added water to the cells, it further led to a direct short circuit across the fused plates. When I drew current for the starter it completely shorted and caused the battery to explode. He suggested that the starter might also be partly responsible, and the wiring from the battery to the starter was exposed to very high currents, and to carefully check all the wiring.
 
    I found the wiring to the starter was OK, with no indication of blistering or burns or weakness. I installed the new battery, wired in the old house bank, disconnected the old Lewco charger completely, and tried starting the boat. Success on the first try, with very fast starting of the engine! I tested both the new starter battery as well as the house bank alone, and found that the engine started within a second or less, with the starter giving a nice healthy sound.
 
    My hope is that the starter is OK.

    The really frightening part was the realization that an exploding battery could well have spewed hot sulfuric acid all over the place. It was only a chance event that prompted me to put the battery cover back on and then put the plywood back in place over the battery compartment. Otherwise, the outcome might have been much more damaging.
 
    I plan to go back to the boat in the morning to wire in the new 3-stage Newmar charger. By that time, I thought I was lucky to get away with only a hit to my credit card, and not some major burns to me by the sulfuric acid. I begin to wonder if those sealed AGM batteries might not be the safest way to go?
 
regards, Harvey									          October 2003
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Hi Harvey,
    Glad you are ok and things got worked out. Remember my remark about the battery heating.  When a battery does start heating internally, the internal temperature is very high, and the acid can boil and cause an explosion.

    That is why the U.S. Coast Guard rules mandate that batteries be in battery boxes with tops.

    Another final point to all, when working with 12 volt batteries or circuits, please be very careful. 
    Always wear safety glasses. There was once a discussion of whether one could be electrocuted with 12 volts, but that is not the dangerous aspect. 

     IF ONE INADVERENTLY SHORTS POSITVE TO NEGATIVE, THERE IS ENOUGH ENERGY IN THE BATTERIES TO MELT AND SPLATTER THE METALLIC OBJECT, SUCH AS A WIRE OR A SCREWDRIVER. 
   SECOND, BATTERY ACID (SULFURIC ACID) IS NASTY STUFF.  IT BURNS BY REMOVING WATER FROM THE SKIN AND CREATES HEAT IN THE PROCESS.  THE BURNS ARE REALLY BAD.  ALSO BE CAREFUL IN ADDING WATER TO ACID, SINCE IT CAN ALSO SPLATTER. 

    THUS ALWAYS WEAR EYE SHIELDS OR GLASSES WHEN WORKING WITH LIVE CIRCUITS AND NEAR BATTERIES!

Jim Clemens		s/v -ATHENA T58 						          October 2003
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Subject: Battery Life and Loads on Starter Battery - where to wire in the Bilge pump?

    A related issue to the topic of starter batteries vs. house banks now confronts me. When I bought the boat, the small electric bilge pump was wired in on the same circuit as the starter battery (?I think that was how it was?). There was a direct input from the battery to the circuit breaker for this main bilge pump (a Rule 1100 with integrated float switch).

    In the course of time, I added a set of golf carts as the house bank, but left the bilge pump on the starter circuit. I'm not even sure that I had a rationale for doing this. In order to provide sufficient power to run the bilge pump long enough to possibly note that the boat was slowly filling with water, I used a "Dual Purpose" Starter/Deep Cycle 27 battery.

    However, I now wonder what would be the best course of action. Should the primary bilge pump be directly wired (through the obvious circuit breaker) to the house bank or the starter battery? Since the house bank also runs the refrigerator, my thought was that the house bank would be more likely to be seriously depleted just when I might need it the most. The starter battery generally gets so little use that it might have the longer lasting charge still available to run the bilge pump in an unattended emergency situation.

    I also have a large 3700 Rule pump which is mounted higher in the bilge and runs from the main house bank.

    Any input from the members would be welcome.

P.S. Ever since installing GFO Teflon stuffing, the bilge pump hardly ever goes on, as indicated by our bilge pump counter. But ...

Harvey J. Karten, M.D.								          October 2003
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    Interesting conundrum. Want the maximum possible utility of the emergency bilge pump? It probably burns about 6 - 8 amps, right? (check this, I'm not sure what the Rule 1100 takes, but that ought to be about right...) In that case, go to Radio Shaft and get a 15A full-wave (bridge) rectifier, attach the house battery to one "AC" terminal, the starter battery to the other "AC" terminal, and the bilge pump circuit breaker to the "+" terminal. You lose 0.6v of voltage to run the pump, but whichever battery has the greater voltage will run the pump, and in a sinking situation, both batteries will have to go dead before it gives up. (By the way, a 14v "trickle charger" could then be connected to the "-" terminal to provide a float charge (13.4v) to both batteries.) The bridge rectifier isolates one battery from the other.

    Be sure to bolt the heatsink of the rectifier to some big piece of metal to keep it cool.

Charlie		s/v Kamaloha	  T37 	#542						          October 2003
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    Downwind Marine in San Diego has black plastic battery filling jugs with auto-shutoff nozzles.

Downwind Marine
2804 Canon Street
San Diego, CA 92106
(619) 224-2733

John Kalpus	Prudence	Tayana 37	San Diego 				         October 2003
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    I check my batteries about every two months and take note of any cells that are using too much water. It can be the first warning of a bad cell within the battery.

    As for nominal filling, I use a technique like the basting bulb. I bought a funnel with a long neck and narrow 1/8" opening in a hardware store. This fits nicely into the cell tops ad also guards against acid splashes. I keep about three gallons of distilled water on the boat at all times, so when it is time to add a little water to the batteries, I fill a small plastic bottle and pour it through the funnel. Thus I eliminate both the splash hazard and the overfilling hazard.  A really cheap design and you can find these parts in any hardware or dollar discount store. 

Jim Clemens		s/v ATHENA T58						         October 2003
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Catalytic Battery Caps for flooded cell batteries:

    Catalytic battery caps capture hydrogen and oxygen as battery water gases and bubbles.  It then uses a platinum catalyst to recombine the hydrogen atoms with an oxygen atom.  The reconstituted water then drips back down into the battery. Battery water usage is decreased better than 95%.  (Wayne Strausbaugh – 2005)

Contact Mr. George Peroni at Hydrocap Corp., 975 N.W. 95 Street, Miami, FL 33150, telephone: (305) 696-2504.

Also, check out these websites:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/environment/alternative-energy/energy-resources/homepower-magazine/archives/11/11pg37.txt 
(2 lines or more – you may have to cut/paste this into your browser.  Very good information…)

http://www.solar-electric.com/hydrocaps.html

Wayne	    V-42     C/C	     RESTLESS						         October 2003
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Harvey,
    I talked to George Peroni at Hydrocap Corp.(975 N.W. 95 Street, Miami, FL 33150, telephone: (305) 696-2504, today. He makes the caps. He made a set for the moon buggy that the astronauts used and says NASA still monitors its signal today after 33 years. The caps were standard inside but modified on the outside to handle no atmosphere. Those must be good batteries as well! The solar charger is still working... Pretty impressive - 33 years on the moon with minimal water loss! George indicated that the lifespan is indefinite if they are treated normally. Mine work great after 15 years.  He will sell them for $7 a piece for less than 40 (and that includes shipping, insurance, etc.) or $6 a piece for more than 40 (that's $18 for one 6-volt battery or $36 for 2 - expensive but they have been worth it to me). If you buy new batteries, he can adapt the old caps to the new screw-in configuration if it is different. My Rolls use the standard bayonet type.

Wayne	    V-42     C/C	     RESTLESS				 		        October 2003
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Subject: Safety around batteries

    I second that... a friend of mine was removing a battery cable when his wedding ring completed the circuit between the wrench and the opposite battery terminal. The ring became instantly white-hot and did a nice job of removing his finger. As a result I always try to use insulated wrenches and screw-drivers when applying them to electrical connections.

Charlie Freeman	s/v Kamaloha	 T37	 #542					         October 2003
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    I guess that's one good reason not to wear rings, (or jewelry of any sort) while performing maintenance, or just plain sailing for that matter.

    While replacing a 4D housebank this fall, I let a tool slip from my hand and it completed the circuit by touching both positive and negative. Sparks flew and a melted tool was the result. Gave me a good scare on just how close you are to getting zapped if you're not extremely careful around boat batteries.

B Ashby	s/v Rhythm	Cal 44	 #016 (looking at Tayana's)			      November 2003
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Subject: bilge battery location

    Have you ever had your bilge flood and water up over your cabin sole?  The last place I'd want to put my batteries is where they'd be vulnerable to submersion.

Sandra Blake 	T37	 Traveler	 Hull #328 					      September 2004
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Sandra,
    I was amazed when I saw the location of the batteries on an Island Packet (or at least on the one that I looked at in detail). Their batteries were below the cabin sole. But they were in watertight containers, and I wasn't certain how they lead the wires out and still keep them waterproof. I was impressed with the heavy-duty steel bars they used to keep them in place in the event of a knockdown/rollover.

    None of us want to have water coming up over the sole. But it happens! I figure that if the bottom of my battery box is at about the waterline, and if the box is sealed at the bottom, then the water has to rise about 12 inches above the waterline to short out the batteries. Not a lot of safety, but better than being below the cabin sole. The problem of maintaining a waterproof lead of the battery cables as they exit the box was something I didn't find simple to achieve in my mind.

    I would not suggest putting screws through the bottom of the polyethylene battery basket. If sulfuric acid spills, as in the exploded battery that John Hovan, I and others, experienced, then there will be free sulfuric acid sloshing around in the battery box. If there are screws, they will be chewed up by the acid. If the screw holes are not well sealed, the acid will immediately start leaking out. Concentrated sulfuric acid is very nasty stuff.

    In view of the weight of a full complement of batteries, it certainly would be nice to be able to store them low in the bilge in the midline. But I don't think that is quite feasible.  I have seen it mounted on the shelf above the engine just aft of the companionway steps. I felt that was much too vulnerable, especially as that shelf is not all that sturdy, and the weight of the batteries were substantial.

    We mounted our hot water heater in the aft lazarette just in front of the steering assembly. Might be more sensible to move that to an alternate location and build a large battery box in that location, as suggested by one of our members. That would keep it low and in the midline. It would also keep it close to the power panel.

regards, Harvey J. Karten								       September 2004
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Harvey,
    Further to your comments on battery location. I own a Tayana 42 aft cockpit #31. I had major flood this spring. The high water mark is still 8 inches below the table level in the main salon. The table post still has the tide line. My batteries are all below the cabin sole. The aft house is a large gel battery.  It was completely under water and continued to run. It is completely encased in plastic. The forward windlass gel was not affected.  However the starter motor battery ran the bilge pump when it was under water for the 6 to 8 hours with 4 pumps running that it took to clear the water.  It died as soon as the boat was empty. Good battery but it had water in it at the end. I live in Toronto so the water was fresh not salt water. I replaced the starter battery, the bilge pump, the house pressure pump and worked to save the engine. The jury is still out on that. The biggest problem was that the discarded oil that had accumulated deep down in the bilge rose up on top of the water and then draped itself all over every bit of teak below the tide line. It was scrubbed off with a product called All Off and a series of toothbrushes. On balance, I think it was worth it to continue to keep the heavy batteries low in the boat.

    On another topic: Have any Tayana 42 owners ever wondered how heavy their boats are? I wondered until yesterday. Coco I was hauled out for the winter and the crane operator told me she weighed 34,000 lbs. That is with full oil tanks and no mast.

David Campbell	Coco I 		aft cockpit	 #31				      September 2004
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    You might consider an additional 'intake' line with a cowl, to help pressurize the battery box ... to create a 'sweep volume of outside air' to aid the diffusion of hydrogen and acid vapors. 

Rich Hampel										       November 2004
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Thanks Rich...

    Of course that makes sense. I'm curious what others have done, if anything, to increase the flow of air across the batteries.

    Since the batteries are below my quarterberth, I don't want a howling gale blowing under the bunk. (-; I gentle zephyr would be about right, or perhaps I shouldn't worry about it at all.

    It seems to me that most battery installations I've seen, under the floorboards, beneath the quarterberth, in the engine compartment, nary a thought is given to where those nasty hydrogen molecules are going. )-; 

    Am I making a mountain out of a molehill, er, I mean, a hydrogen bomb out of a firecracker?

Regards, John Kalpus		S/V Prudence		San Diego			      November 2004

(see catalytic battery caps above on pages 13 & 14)
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    Two tubes in/out of the locker should be sufficient .... one at the bottom of the locker and one at the top of the locker, the thermal difference (warm battery when charging; colder locker surfaces) and the placement of the hi/lo tubes should be enough to create a natural 'thermo-syphon' + plus any breeze that passes the ends of the tubes.

Rich Hampel										       November 2004
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    Can someone, please, explain to me (I'm scientifically challenged) why I cannot dry out a piece of wood that has become saturated with battery acid. The wood turned dark and almost black and I'm assuming that it is still damp because it has not lightened back up after putting heat lamps on it for hours and letting it air dry for many moons. Is there no hope?

Thanks, John Keefe	CT37 	No.63 	ODYSSEA	Youngstown, NY		         February 2005
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Subject: Wood soaked with battery acid

John,
    Sorry, but there is no hope. Battery acid is an extremely corrosive substance (concentrated sulfuric acid). It carbonizes wood, and completely destroys any structural strength that the wood may have provided.

    Just replace the wood. You should also store your batteries in plastic cases, well secured to prevent the battery from sliding around or falling over, using a nylon strap. Nylon strapping is relatively impervious to sulfuric acid. But it's a good idea to replace the straps if they contact the acid.

    Sulfuric acid is very nasty stuff. If you splash even a small amount into your eye, you should immediately flush it with copious quantities of water.

regards, Harvey									        February 2005
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Harvey,
    Thanks for the answer although that is not what I wanted to hear. Well, it looks like another project is in order. The previous owner spilled acid, somehow, in the battery compartment located under the aft starboard berth.  I've tried to dry it over the winter months but it looks like I'll have to take off the blue blazer and Sperry's and get down to rebuilding the wood floor and associated wood supports in that area. I can't believe that Tayana didn't install a proper battery box. I thought about maybe relocating them to somewhere else but I can't really think of a better place. I guess they offset some of the heavier port side things, anyway.
 
    How bloody awful!
 
Regards, John Keefe    CT37    No.63      ODYSSEA   Youngstown, NY		        February 2005
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Hi John,
    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. This can happen if a battery explodes, as happened to me about a year ago. I think the same thing happened to one of our other members.  Fortunately, I had the battery in a plastic battery box, and my head was nowhere near it when it blew (due to a short and my own stupidity. I left a connector loose when checking something a few minutes prior.  Batteries don't just "blow up" spontaneously, as a rule.) But I have even had a situation when a brand new battery had a crack in the casing and started leaking within a few hours of installation.

    The skimpy battery boxes usually sold at West Marine are not what you want. Get a hefty plastic box (with walls and floor about 1/4". But do not drill holes in the bottom of the box to secure it. If acid leaks out, then you again have a problem. The hefty walled battery box that I have holds two 6V golf cart batteries. It cost about $50 or $60.

    Another strategy, which I may use to install a second bank of golf cart batteries, is to build a custom battery box with plywood, fiberglass liner and epoxy. This is shown in Nigel Calder's book, or in Casey's book. This allows you to fit batteries in odd spaces.

    Make sure that you have rods on top of the batteries box to secure the batteries in the event of a rough sea (or a drastic capsize and rollover). Check some of the offshore battery storage solutions in boats like the Island Packet, the Caliber and the Morris. They use heavy steel rods that are locked in place on top of the battery box, to prevent battery movement in the event of a rollover.

    That's on my list of things to do if I take off for blue water, but at the moment, I just secure the batteries with nylon straps and wooden 2x4's on the top.

regards, Harvey									         February 2005
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Hi Harvey, Bill,
    Thanks for the info and tips. On my last boat, I made battery boxes just as you described, Harvey, from information in Carlie Wing's book called "Boatowner's Illustrated Handbook of Wiring" wherein he gave detailed instructions on making heavy duty boxes out of 3/4" exterior plywood and fiberglass, etc. They worked out great.

    I'm going to do the same thing now for Odyssea. I'll build a custom box to hold four golf cart batteries and have two separate banks to start with which will be enough for the sailing I will be doing. I now have the opportunity to glass onto the hull heavy wood supports to support the heavy-duty battery box and the new "floor" that I will need to install in the aft cabin. When I get to it I'll take photos and pass them along.

    Bill, AGM batteries are for all you guys with lots of disposable income....I'm cheap plus I get golf cart batteries from one of our vendors at work at a very nice price.

Regards, John Keefe	CT37	 No.63	  ODYSSEA	Youngstown, NY		         February 2005
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    Yep, AGM’s are nice, but very pricey. They also require a change in your voltage regulator. I also recall that you can't readily mix a bank of AGM's with a regular type of lead-acid, due to slightly different voltages, and different recharging requirements. For $200 you can get four golf cart batteries with a capacity of about 210 amp hours. A separate starter battery of 12 volts is dedicated to the engine. I don't know what a similar setup would be for AGM’s.

regards, Harvey									        February 2005
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    The info I have on AGM’s is that they do just fine on the same charging programs as flooded batteries. Gel cells are really sensitive to voltages that are high enough to fully charge a flooded cell. The AGM’s can’t be run at the extremely high voltages for long periods that is used to equalize flooded cells. 

    I think I paid about $1600 for 5 4D AGM’s and one Type 27 AGM for starting the engine. That would work out to a little more than $300 for a couple of hundred amp hours. The advantages are that they can be installed in tighter spaces (no boxes needed), can be installed sideways if necessary with-out a loss of capacity, are supposed to tolerate total discharge and still recover, and totally contain the acid so the batteries would have to be physically damaged for leaks to occur. Mine are two years old now and show no sign of loosing capacity. They live an easy life and have rarely been discharged below 60%. I can sit on the hook for 5 or 6 days, run the fridge, coffee maker TV, computer and forget to turn off the anchor light and still don’t run the bank below 60 %.
 
    Glacier bay is a great source of technical info on battery banks. Since they are not trying to sell me any particular kind of battery, I tend to trust them. 

John Lewis										        February 2005
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    AGM's are more expensive but I really believe that they are worth the extra money. I used to sell Optima's years ago as part of UPS systems where the abuse was excessive. After trying virtually all the batteries on the market we found that the Optima consistently outlived all the others. We still do mil-spec UPS's and recommend Optimas, but we don't sell them because of the company. They really stand up to the heat and can be ignored once installed properly. 
 
    The reason I recommend Optima's over other AGM's is because they use a spiral cell, the plate is wrapped up (like a toilet roll) and jammed tight into the case which makes it very vibration resistant. They also recover from a flatline state very efficiently. I installed a set of 10 batteries in a mobile aircraft control tower for the air force, they forgot to switch them off over a long weekend and after the main power was turned off they ran the unit until they were flattened. The Corporal put a chart on them to check the recovery and was astounded at how good they were. 

    I run them in our boats and cars just using the regular regulator and mix them with a bunch of deep cycle UPS batteries that I got for free, but that's not really recommended.

    Please note that I have absolutely no financial interest in the optima company and buy my Optima's wherever I can find them on sale :-)

Bill & Sue	T37 	Wellantanzerin     Port Hope, Canada					March 2005
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Hey Group... 
    I've been researching the install on a new electric windlass for my T37, Prudence. I was planning on running 70 feet of 2/0 wire from my main batteries, under the quarterberth. THEN it HIT me that I could also simply put another battery under the vee berth, and dedicate it to the windlass. That would sure simplify the install. Since it would be rare to be operating the windlass without the engine running, wouldn't it be a much easier and better installation this way? 

    What am I NOT thinking of? 

    The windlass would be really running off the dedicated battery, even if the engine were running. Would this put too much of a load on the charging wires from my alternator to the vee berth battery while operating the windlass over an extended period of time? Thanks for the sage advice in advance.

John Kalpus	 Prudence	 San Diego 							   May 2005
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John, 
    Won't you still have to run heavy gauge wire from your alternator to the battery under the V-birth? If you have Nigel Calder's "BOAT OWNERS MECHANICAL AND ELECTRICAL MANUAL", see his write-up on windlass wiring on page 534.
 
Jim (SMILES)											   May 2005
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Hi John, 
    Jim is correct. You have to run cables from the alternator that are rated for the full amount of current drawn from the alternator to the windlass, assuming that you have an alternator that can keep up with the current draw. With a LoFrans 1200, you draw a full 100 amps at 12-volts, slightly less at the nearly 14-volts that the alternator is generating when the engine is running. You also have to use the rating tables for a 3% voltage drop or you risk burning out your motor in the windlass. You end up requiring the same 2/0 wiring as if your battery were closer to the engine rather than the windlass, according to Calder.

    In actual terms, most of the time that you run your windlass, it is not drawing maximal current, but for those few occasions when you do, you could easily overload the wiring.  If you have to do a number of anchor drops to find a good anchor set, you will be drawing down your battery. 

    Another alternative would be to move your engine and alternator into the bow - sort of like front wheel drive automobile. That will allow you to also have your batteries up front. 

Harvey	 Karten											     May 2005
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